Ducati Monster Motorcycle Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, just wondering if anyone knows why Ducati switched from carbs to fuel injection? From what I understand, the carbed bikes are easier to maintain and service yourself, while the FI bikes get more power or something? For those of you who have both, which do you prefer and why? [smiley=help.gif]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Yes, but is the power increase worth the lack of ease of maintenance? Should I "get with the times" as it were and get a FI Monster? (I don't have one as of yet, and am planning to buy next fall).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,154 Posts
Here is how I always thought of it. I used to have off road bikes and even an old Dodge Charger that were carb'd and I always had problems with them. After owning those I was scared to get annything with a carb, because I don't want to really be fussing with carbs..I just want to ride/drive. But when I bought my Carb'd Zx-6r in 1995 I never had any problems. So after that I no longer feard them. Just make sure they are set up correctly and they should give you LOTS of trouble free milage.

Also FI is easier to start in cold weather and what'not, but that's why you have a choak right?
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I wouldn't own a street bike without fuel injection. I regularly ride at altitudes from about 5000 feet to 10,500. I live at 7600. FI bikes run well at all altitudes, carbureted bikes cannot be jetted to run well at these extemes.
 
S

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I think they probably desired to be a participant in the 21st Century! ;)
 
R

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
Besides carbs versus FI there were other changes....for example the M900 engine went through several changes I believe before ending up with the FI version...so you might want to consider
engine changes also.....I believe Manleycycle.com has some tech reports
on the evolution of the 900 engine.....I am not sure if the other models were affected the same or not but it might be worth a thought.....good luck on your decision...hope you find a great bike.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,755 Posts
Besides incremental performance and driveability (rideability for bikes i guess) the main factors driving all manufacturers to FI are fuel efficiency and emmissions regulations. While bikes are not yet being squeezed as much as cars/trucks are, the industry is responding with FI, more fuel maps, more processing power, more memory, more sophisticated injector design etc., etc.

You can no longer buy a carb'ed car in the US or western Europe (I think). Bikes won't be far behind.

Still, there's nothing wrong with carbed bikes. They are just less efficient, pollute more and are marginally less powerful than equivelent FI bikes.

I love my carby.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
116 Posts
My first bike was an '80 Kawasaki KZ550 LTD. Carbed, as you'd expect. For being as old as it was, it was fine for tooling around the neighborhood. Still, I swore it would be the last carburetor I'd ever own. When the 620 was announced, with FI, that was what pushed me over the edge to upgrade.

Ask any (financially-accountable) automotive engineer- there's simply no comparison. Fuel injection gives you pressure and nozzle control, greatly improving the misting of fuel. Smaller mist droplets mean more complete combustion- more power and cleaner emissions. That's called a free lunch, and there ain't many more in the piston-engine business. The only freer lunch is finer fuel spraying, through higher-pressure injection (like modern diesels, which inject at thousands of PSI).

Someone mentioned self-adjustment. Carburetors have a limited ability to compensate for weird states, which is why fuel injection was relatively balky in the first vehicles. But once the kinks were worked out (partly due to faster computers, partly race experience), there was no reason not to include it in any non-economy vehicle.
Rene Carlos
 
M

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
I have worked in the automotive industry for many years and I must say that FI is by far the best solution for both power and emissions requirements. Most of all it is not really very complex and with just a little bit of training most people would be less fearful about it. Overall FI is tremendously reliable and requires very little in the way of maintenance - not something you can really say for carbs generally. While carbs don't just "go out" or fail, they do require frequent adjustment and are easily prone to clogging and wear. Yes, the 21st century is a great thing for motorcycles and I'm glad to see them finally getting on the bandwagon. Oh, and I love my F.I. 620.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,755 Posts
The carbuerator is a really amazing invention! For a mechanical device to have the ability to adjust to variables as the carb does is quite fascinating.

Still, FI with current levels of electronic control is far superior.

However, with that electronic sophistication comes a lot of crap I don't like. There's the damned immobilizer failures. Worse yet is the friggin' black box that records all your control inputs. Originally intended for fault diagnosis, it is beginning to be used to prosecute drivers in accidents! Big brother is hitching a ride with our better combusiton control!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,800 Posts
-----------snip----------------------------
However, with that electronic sophistication comes a lot of crap I don't like. There's the damned immobilizer failures. Worse yet is the friggin' black box that records all your control inputs. Originally intended for fault diagnosis, it is beginning to be used to prosecute drivers in accidents! Big brother is hitching a ride with our better combusiton control!
Just to clarify, the recording of control inputs is only on the latest automotive ECU's, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,755 Posts
Yeah. As far as I know, this sh!t hasn't migrated to bikes yet.

As you say, it's only begun in cars.

Can you imagine the day when your insurance won't pay a dime 'cause the black box says you were 5mph over at the time of the accident? Truly scary!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,677 Posts
right now, EFI on bikes is on par with EFI from cars circa 1980. the ducati's are starting to enter the 90s and i think BMW with its O2 sensor is into the 90s.

i'm not too fond of the first generation of ducati EFI as applied to the 2V engines. meaning the 1.5m ecu driving the efi on bikes like zina's m900ie. it doesn't seem to cope well with low speed low throttle application. the flywheel helped a little bit in that the engine was less likely to be so pushy to the rest of the bike.

i recently (and briefly!) test rode a customer's m620ie. it didn't seem as bad to me.


one thing i like about the carb'd ducatis is how dramatically they improve when you trash can the OEM carbs and put on the Keihin FCR carbs. BUT... zina's m900ie is about as strong STOCK as an m900 carby with FCRs. granted, the FCRs have more response.

ultimately, for a manufacturer, having EFI is better since you can more easily adapt to emissions and easily adapt same control system to different models.

next to join the carburetor in the trash can is air cooling. soon that ST3 engine will be in everything.

:) chris
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top