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Discussion Starter #1
I want to buy a 2 valve shim assortment. Who sells one, there is a company on Ebay that sells the measurement tool and says they will be making them soon, anyone else?
 

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Ive decided to do my valve adjustment this week, should I buy a whole shim kit or just get what I need from Oside Ducati? How much do individual shims cost?
 

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VeeTwo makes a nice one & it includes oversize openers in case you ever go with a big cam.
 

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I kind of worry about people just making shims and selling them to the public. I've heard that one popular alternative makes so few sizes (so the kit isn't overly expensive) that you have to shave too much off at a time, which increases the chance of them not remaining parallel. About the same kit, I'm told that the 2V opener shims are too wide, so they'll cause the same problem that the oversized shims from Ducati would: etch a line on the valve stem that will trap the closing shim. This is because of too large a gap between sides of valve and inside of opening shim and "walking".

Another issue is of hardening... Ducati OEM shims have been found to test between 40~60 rockwell. Guy Martin of www.mpbducati.ca is getting into the manufacture of these and is not cutting any corners.

:) Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The one from Desmoparts says 170 piece and has been tested for 2 years. I would get a copy of test report from them before purchasing, indeed. I want to ensure that their tests were done under racing or heavy loaded conditions and will be indeed surfaced flat. I would not hesitate to return it should it not meet those standards.
 

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The cheapest way to do it is do the measurements and buy the shims you want from a local Ducati shop. One dealer in my area was evasive, but another had no problem with me walking in with measurements and it cost me only a few bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I have 3 bikes with 2v motors and will have another soon. I want the shims at my fingertips.
 

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I just did my Vert. Cyl. and It was fine, no shims needed. Is it not usually this way? My bike has 17,000mi. on it and I expected they would be a little worn but everything checked out perfect. No closing gaps at all.
 

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The shim kits offered by Motorstrano, European Cycle, and Spareshack, and EMS were designed and manufactured by myself. I am a practicing mechanical engineer educated at UC Berkeley and hold two degrees in engineering. I have worked in the Biomedical engineering field for over 20 yrs desiging implantable medical devices and life support systems. I came up with the idea of offering shim kits after attempting to do my first valve adjustment on my 900 Monster.

First of all, the shims I designed are as close to the optimum design that ducati offers. The design was obtained by sampling a fairly large quantity of stock shims and accurately measuring the features. Some of them were sectioned in half to get precise dimensions on inside features (especially 4V closer shims). The inspection equipment used is calibrated semiannually to assure accurate measurements. Also the hardness of the each shim was measured and recorded. With all of this information and an understanding of the workings of the rocker arm on the shims, a specification was created. This included a material choice suitable for this particular application. I can say that my specification holds tighter tolerances on the critical features of the shims than the stock ducati parts.

Next a manufacturer was chosen with the latest CNC turning machines to accurately manufacture the shims. Critical dimensions are measured as the parts come off of the machine the tool offsets are adjusted accordingly. After a lot of shims are completed, they are inspected using the same procedures that medical device company would use to inspect parts for an implantable, or life support device. Again, the inspection equipment is calibrated to a standard every six months to assure accuracy. If any parts from a sample are out of specification, the entire lot is checked and the rejected parts are quarentined and returned to the vendor and scrapped. Once the parts pass quality control, they are placed in kits and are ready for distribution.

The 2V shims have been tested extensively. Over 23,000 miles have been logged on my own bike with the shims installed, including 3 track days. The shims have been removed and inspected with no signs of wear. The valves have also been inspected with no signs of damage around the groove where the half rings seat. Over 170 kits have been distributed to date, with no reported complaints.

I hope this synopsis takes the mystery out of this product. I hope it also puts some credibility into its design. Engineers just like myself designed these shims. A process similar to the one described is used to assure that the shims will perform as they were designed.

If you have any further questions, you can email me directly at [email protected]

Thanks
Mike Guidera
www.emsduc.com
 

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I just did my Vert. Cyl. and It was fine, no shims needed. Is it not usually this way? My bike has 17,000mi. on it and I expected they would be a little worn but everything checked out perfect. No closing gaps at all.
That's pretty normal. Especially once the closing keeper half rings work harden and stop compressing. It really helps to have the closing gap very small.

:) Chris
 

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I have 3 bikes with 2v motors and will have another soon. I want the shims at my fingertips.
Yes, I know how you feel. I bought Ducati Performance 2V and 4V shim kits and the 2V one is picked clean in many areas. I guess it's time for me to go shim kit shopping, too!! The DP one is pretty good in that it comes with 3 each size (4V kit comes with 4 each) but their "sizes" are kinda sketchy... some are dead nuts on and there are others which are visibly different manufacture and they will vary continuously between sizes.

:) Chris
 

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I've installed Mike's shims on 3 different bikes (including my own) and have nothing but praise for his kits. I also had an opportunities to discuss the shims with him personally and have walked away amazed at the specifications in which these were made. BTW, I've got no affiliation with Mike other than we live in the same city.... I jus' like spreadin' the good word! :D
 

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I'm impressed Mike - next time I need some, I'll get a batch from you. Could you tell us a couple of things? Many of us sand a few thousands off a shim to make it fit, how deep is the surface hardness on your shims? And....the big question.... how much are your shims when bought in bulk?
 

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Let me explain the hardening process. I have chosen tool steel that can be hardened completely through. When an engineer gives a reputable heat treat vendor a hardened specification (usually its a range on a Rockwell scale), the vendor has a software program that he loads into a controller of a fancy oven. This program brings the temperature up to a certain point or points at a precise rate. It holds the temperature for a precise time then allows it to cool at another predetermined rate. This "formula" has been figured out depending on the size of the part and the type of steel. In the end the hardness of the part is checked on the hardness tester to verify that it meets the initial spec. So what you end up with is a part that is hardened uniformly through, so if you sand a few thousands off of one surface, the hardness remains the same.

Not sure what you mean by bulk? Are you asking to buy more than one kit? Distribution? See www.emsduc.com for details, or email me off list to clarify.
Mike Guidera
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Sounds like just what I need Mike. Any chance of a DML bulk purchase special. Oh, by the way DML ers, me first.Chris may be right, I found I needed all of them in one area most, the .145-.155 openers, which were in the middle of the selection. I am afraid that I would need all out of one area and leave the rest unused.
 

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I'm impressed Mike - next time I need some, I'll get a batch from you. Could you tell us a couple of things? Many of us sand a few thousands off a shim to make it fit, how deep is the surface hardness on your shims? And....the big question.... how much are your shims when bought in bulk?
Good question Norm, I know Mike said his shims are consistant all the way through but what about the stock ones? I had to sand the openers on a couple valves (horz. cyl.) and I wonder if they are still as strong?
 

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Good question Norm, I know Mike said his shims are consistant all the way through but what about the stock ones? I had to sand the openers on a couple valves (horz. cyl.) and I wonder if they are still as strong?
Given what Mike said about his shims, it is rude to mention anything from Ducati in the same sentence. :p (Doh, sorry Mike!)

I've heard from two different "concerns" that Ducati shims range in hardness from 30~60 rockwell. From too soft to needlessly hard. My experience has shown this... some closing shims actually deform around the OEM wire collets. Basically, from my experiences, there is no real worry about what you put in the bike. It is especially good to have small closing clearance.

BTW, if any of you's put in Stainless or Ti valves, you really really need to use MBP Collets. I learned that one the hard way on my 92 900ss... having to adjust the valves every 600~1000 miles. Then they'd be so deformed that the edge of the cut for the closing shim would mushroom and trap on the closing shim.

:) Chris
 
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