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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I've got a 2000 M900ie that I bought brandy new that I'm now having a really weird problem with. When I pull in the clutch and leave it in for a while the outer clutch plate slips out of the slots in the clutch basket and will come between the pressure plate and the clutch basket when I let off the lever. I've pulled the clutch apart 3 or 4 times now and made sure nothings in there (ie dust bunnies, dead frogs, etc...vented clutch cover doncha know) forcing the plates away from the bottom of the basket...I've pulled the clutch slave cylinder off and made sure nothing is in the bottom of it...I've even bled the slave cylinder in desperation...all no good. Some of the clutch plate tabs are notched a little but not what I'd consider bad.
I've called my local dealership for advice and they, of course, had none (but would be glad to service it in a week or so to the tune of big $$).

Any thoughts or even funny limerics would be appreciated b/c, while I love my Duc, I'm now regreting not sticking with Yamaha.
 

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Maybe new clutch springs? I still dont think It should do that with worn out springs though. If it were not a hydrolic clutch I would say it sounds like the cable is too tight but that makes no sense on these bikes. How is it when riding? Does it slip at all?
 
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Clutch springs were my first guess as well but I find it hard to believe that all of them would wear out after only 3 years.

It rides fine. Zero slippage. I _can_ ride it this way I just have to be careful not to pull in the clutch too much at lights and doing clutchless upshifts.

One thing I forgot to mention is that there was a mashed up ring of rubber underneath the slave cylinder when I pulled it off. I say mashed up b/c I have no idea what it's supposed to look like but it's a little out of round and somewhat...well smooshed. I reinstalled the slave cylinder w/o it thinking it might be getting in the way but nothing changed. It did exactly the same thing.
 
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it's acting like you've got a throw-out rod that's too long. but it's not like this thing can lengthen over time. wierd. try pulling the clutch slave again and pull the throw-out rod from the engine. if it's the full width of the engine, you're ok. if you find a small piece pulls out, it may be broken. if it broke in two parts, it could still work as one part would drive the other in the shaft. but if they butt together where it broke at an odd orientation, they can act as a single longer rod.

this is really unlikely but worth checking since it's easy to do.

from the clutch side, you may want to pull the p'plate off and make sure the throw-out rod is fully seated in the push-cup that seats in the bearing.
 

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Well, the smooshed up thing is probably the gasket and maybe the slave was overtightend crushing it and moving everything inward a couple mm, but I dont think there is that close of a tolerance. Still, I would go get a new gasket and try that too.
 
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Discussion Starter #6
the smooshed thing is probably a rubber accordion seal that is used to keep impurities and detritus (my word for the week) out of the slave cylinder bore. This way the slave assembly can prematurely fail at the apprporiate interval(sarcasm)

If you have an overly long throw, try dialing the hand lever in to a closer setting to the handle bar to decrease its travel and hence the travel of the piston that drives the rod that pushes out the pressure plate

other things to check are the clutch rod...is it greased and not sticking in the bore

does the bearing in your pressure plate spin or is it frozen? and then the center pin spirals the plate out because the bearing doesn't turn kinda maybe

is the end-socket pin that sits in the bearing ok?

I don't think its your springs....sounds like too much travel or travel is increased due to things binding and climbing rather than spinning

let us know
 

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Any thoughts or even funny limerics would be appreciated b/c, while I love my Duc, I'm now regreting not sticking with Yamaha.
Since you asked:

This guy had a Ducati clutch
that looked like it threw out too much
if he cant find the reason
he's heading for treason
with Yamaha dealers and such

:)

big
 

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Since you asked:

This guy had a Ducati clutch
that looked like it threw out too much
if he cant find the reason
he's heading for treason
with Yamaha dealers and such

:)

big

;D Nice one!! ;D

Kevin
 
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Discussion Starter #9
Replies:

strati: The clutch rod is rounded on both ends and does indeed stick completely thru the engine so I don't think it's broken. The bearing in the pressure plate looks like it's seated fully but just to be sure I tried to whack it in further but it didn't move...that either means it's fully seated or I didn't whack it hard enough.

DTMsurf: I'll get a new unsmooched seal eventually but I agree it's probably not contributing to the problem to the clutch.

MostroRodento: Funny you mention that. I tried the 'closest to the bar' setting for the lever right after posting the first time but that didn't do it either. The pressure plate bearing (throwout bearing?) spins very nicely.
//snip/ is the end-socket pin that sits in the bearing ok?/snip//
End-socket pin....ummm...whats that?

bigiain: Dude, hilarious limeric! Muchas Gracias.

Lemme see if I can find a free place to post pics and I'll post a link for some pics of these parts (like the bearing to see if you guys think it's seated and the slave cylinder plunger).
 
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Tard question from me....

is there such a thing as bleeding the slave-master hydraulic system to a point where the slave piston is not at full retreat when the master cylinder lever is released?

I have bled my slave cylinder while it was detached from the bike and it seems the piston was always forced back to its proper depth by the clutch rod when I remounted the unit...which drove excess fluid back up through the MC reservoir which spilled all over and created a mess etc etc

hmmm maybe check to see that the slave cylinder piston is fully able to travel to the bottom of the slave bore....maybe it is sitting too high as a starting point and the hydraulics are bled to that piston depth-level??????
 
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Discussion Starter #11
make the pack thinner - use less steel plates or try to get some 1.5mm flat steel like the sintered packs used. that way it will start further in, so end up less out for the same travel out .

wacky tho - i've never heard of that before.
 

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Tard question from me....

is there such a thing as bleeding the slave-master hydraulic system to a point where the slave piston is not at full retreat when the master cylinder lever is released?
No. The only thing that makes the slave piston retreat would be the springs pushing on the pressure plate. And if they're not strong enough to shove the slave cylinder all the way back, the clutch assembly would slip big time under power.

Kevin
 
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MostroRodento: Before I bled the slave cylinder I tried to shove the piston back in but it would just return to the same position when I let go. Dunno if bleeding it helped or not, it was an act of desperation. Seems like if there was air in the line it would have the opposite effect of what I'm experiencing.

brad_black: Hey, that's a good idea! My clutch stack begins (at the bottom of the basket) with two steel plates back to back then alternates between steel plates and clutch plates. Is it supposed to be this way and can I take one of the beginning steel plates out without harming anything? Anyone, anyone Bueller, Bueller?

I'm going to go pull the clutch apart for the umteenth time to take some digital pics and see if Brads solution works. It's just hard for me to believe that it came from the factory messed up...course, this is my first non-Jap bike so it could be 'normal'.
 

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Mine has the two steel plates at the beginning as well and then alternates. It seems like Brad's idea will work but would be more like just treating the symptoms than solving the problem. But hey, if it gets you back on the road its a winner!
 

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Phooka,

When I did a checkout of my clutch a while back, I took a few notes. I've got an S4, but AFAIK, the clutch is the same.

2 steels back to back on the bottom, as you said, then (starting with a friction) 7 frictions alternating with 7 more steels. Perhaps Guido installed an extra plate?

I just looked at my bike, when I pull the lever in all the way, the outermost friction plate can come out level with the end of the fingers on the outer basket, but no further.

The last plate you install should be a steel, then the pressure plate goes on.

HTH....... :-/
 
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Appologies up front. I need to get whatever that goop is off my digital camera lens but I think they're clear enough.

at rest
http://geocities.com/gun5ling3r/before.JPG

after popping out
http://geocities.com/gun5ling3r/after.JPG

the backside of the pressure plate
http://www.geocities.com/gun5ling3r/bearingbackside.JPG

closeup of same
http://www.geocities.com/gun5ling3r/closeupbbs.JPG

the clutch parts
http://www.geocities.com/gun5ling3r/clutchguts.JPG

blurry pic of clutch rod slave cylinder side
http://www.geocities.com/gun5ling3r/clutchrodslaveside.JPG

empty clutch basket clutch rod installed
http://www.geocities.com/gun5ling3r/emptybasket.JPG

slave cylinder removed...interesting aside here how far it's poking out...
http://www.geocities.com/gun5ling3r/slaveremoved.JPG

after pressing in slave cylinder with my thumb
http://www.geocities.com/gun5ling3r/thumbpressure.JPG


DTMsurf: I agree, seems like a band-aid fix but at this point I'd be willing to try anything.

Speeddog830: Thanks for the sanity check. I really should go out and buy a book for this bike some day :)
 

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Your links aren't working!

Kevin
 

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Ok, that works, thanks. None of those look abnormal to me, except the shot of the the poped out ring. I wonder whats up with that.

Kevin
 

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Shouldnt there be a metal shim under the large nut that holds the hub on? I was told once that these metal washers cam wear out and cause play in the hub action making things slip. I dont see one in your pic #7 this cound be the problem.
 
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