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well_armed
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I just got back from my local dealer, a customer ordered the S4R Termi kit (carbon fibre cans) and didnt claim it.
Is it worth the cash to get all of it?
Is it worth the cash to get all of it?
Verdict on S4R Ducati Performance Kit?
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s4strati
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personally, i don't think it's worth it. for the cost of the kit, it should include a full system (not just slip-ons).
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oneducs
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ask someone who has waited six months for their pipes. if you want some pipes and can pick these up i say do it! 
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well_armed
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Will I notice that much of a difference with a full system?
They gave me an off the cuff quote of $1800 or something...it seemed like a lot of money and now that I see that they are slip-ons I am going to have to think about this some more....
I see only two options, the Ducati kit and the Arrow kit....is there anything else out there? What is the best option now?
They gave me an off the cuff quote of $1800 or something...it seemed like a lot of money and now that I see that they are slip-ons I am going to have to think about this some more....
I see only two options, the Ducati kit and the Arrow kit....is there anything else out there? What is the best option now?
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oneducs
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you own a 04 S4R, sil moto makes what i would say is the best looking full set of pipes for the S4R. arrow and termignoni or DP. here is a page from spareshack with the exhaust that they sell. http://www.spareshack.com/cgi-bin/browse-no-frames.cgi?session=36683782&view=group&group=ducs4rexh
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Well-armed: I have not researched the S4R kits, but HAVE researched the three S4 kits that are available. Here are my conclusions:
Kit 1: Termi pipes, airbox mod, & matching ECU: A GREAT improvement. On the S4, my computer model shows a substantial improvement in acceleration - as much as 0.4 reduction in quarter mile time, which is immense. This is partially because not only does the kit increase high rpm power without hurtung mid or low range, but also because the ECU includes raising the rv limiter to 10,000 RPM.
Kit 2: Same as kit 1 but uses 45/50 (i.e. alrger) exhaust piping between the heads and the Termi mufflers: Also a pretty notable improvement, but not as large as the improvement made by kit 1. Kit 2 is NOT addable "later", as the mufflers used in kit 2 need a larger opening for the larger exhaust pipes. No further change in rev limit (still 10,000). No loss of mid or low range.
Kit 3: Same as kit 2 but adds the racing cams. There is a TINY loss of low range power, a small increase in peak power, and a raising of the rev limit to 10,700. The further improvement looks really impressive on the dyno chart because of the higher rev limit, BUT only adds incrementally to actual 0 to 60, 0 TO 100, and quarter mile performance.
My conclusoins for the S4 kits:
Kit 1: Yes, a no brainer if you can afford it
Kit 2: Yes if you can afford it, but not as breathtaking as kit 1
Kit 3: Only if you absolutely HAVE to have the last drops of hp
All that being said, it is notable that all these kits, even kit 2, are expensive. Therefore, it is interesting that according to my computer model, my change from 15/37 gearing on my S4 to 14/42 has as great or greater impact than kit 1, and this gearing change was far less costly.
Of course, the kit 1 on my bike, COMBINED with the 14/42 gearing, IS proving to be a very satisfying COMBINATION.
Food for thought.
Jim G
Kit 1: Termi pipes, airbox mod, & matching ECU: A GREAT improvement. On the S4, my computer model shows a substantial improvement in acceleration - as much as 0.4 reduction in quarter mile time, which is immense. This is partially because not only does the kit increase high rpm power without hurtung mid or low range, but also because the ECU includes raising the rv limiter to 10,000 RPM.
Kit 2: Same as kit 1 but uses 45/50 (i.e. alrger) exhaust piping between the heads and the Termi mufflers: Also a pretty notable improvement, but not as large as the improvement made by kit 1. Kit 2 is NOT addable "later", as the mufflers used in kit 2 need a larger opening for the larger exhaust pipes. No further change in rev limit (still 10,000). No loss of mid or low range.
Kit 3: Same as kit 2 but adds the racing cams. There is a TINY loss of low range power, a small increase in peak power, and a raising of the rev limit to 10,700. The further improvement looks really impressive on the dyno chart because of the higher rev limit, BUT only adds incrementally to actual 0 to 60, 0 TO 100, and quarter mile performance.
My conclusoins for the S4 kits:
Kit 1: Yes, a no brainer if you can afford it
Kit 2: Yes if you can afford it, but not as breathtaking as kit 1
Kit 3: Only if you absolutely HAVE to have the last drops of hp
All that being said, it is notable that all these kits, even kit 2, are expensive. Therefore, it is interesting that according to my computer model, my change from 15/37 gearing on my S4 to 14/42 has as great or greater impact than kit 1, and this gearing change was far less costly.
Of course, the kit 1 on my bike, COMBINED with the 14/42 gearing, IS proving to be a very satisfying COMBINATION.
Food for thought.
Jim G
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well_armed
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Any pages that I can read about the specs of these? Any local vendors (US) that sell these? What db are they?
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wwumonster
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Is noise an issue? There was something I saw on another board about the Ducati Performace pipes not being as loud as other aftermarket pipes. In the situation I read about, the person bought them for a m750 but someone else with a 748 or 749 found the same thing.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
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s4strati
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stock system's header tubing is 40mm diameter. that's pretty lame for a 996cc motor! it wouldn't work on an s4R but i installed a stock header off an st4 which is 45mm and made some custom cans with 50mm tubing and 748 muffler bodies with 52mm cores. saved over 10 lbs compared to stock and am definately getting better power out of this "kit".
go to ducati.com and do a bike comparison between the s4R and the st4S. virtually identical motors but the st4S has 45mm headers.
with a full system, you'll get good power, you'll save even more weight than just slip-ons (because you'll be getting rid of the "bulge") and it'll look much cleaner because there'll be no "buldge".
i'd suggest looking into the full sil motor or arrow system. costs less than the DP slip-on kit. with the money you save, cut your own airbox lid for free, drop in a BMC or K&N filter (DU-9001) and buy a PCIII from FBF with an appropriate map pre-installed.
go to ducati.com and do a bike comparison between the s4R and the st4S. virtually identical motors but the st4S has 45mm headers.
with a full system, you'll get good power, you'll save even more weight than just slip-ons (because you'll be getting rid of the "bulge") and it'll look much cleaner because there'll be no "buldge".
i'd suggest looking into the full sil motor or arrow system. costs less than the DP slip-on kit. with the money you save, cut your own airbox lid for free, drop in a BMC or K&N filter (DU-9001) and buy a PCIII from FBF with an appropriate map pre-installed.
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well_armed
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well_armed
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Thanks for taking the time typing all that out...I really do appreciate it. I never knew about the 40 v 45 mm header differences...
What local vendors out there can supply with the sil motor setup? Thanks!
well_armed: I dont mean to throw a wrench in the gears here, but there are several of us s4r owners with the arrow system that really like it. I'm not saying that the Sil system isnt better, just that I haven't heard any personal testimonials. I know that Stuart at Spareshack carries the Sils and I totally trust him. Fast bt Feraci also carries a re-badged version (if they ever get them). If I were getting the Sils, I would get them from Spareshack, because Stuart told me that at one time there was a problem with oil filters burning on the pipework and that the ones he carries have had the problem resolved. Cant say that would be true for other vendors.
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well_armed
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rmir6
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Just had the S4R Termi kit carbon fibre cans Slipon fitted today, they look and sound unbelievable, even with the cat, was going to have it removed but after hearing them, I
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s4strati
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same borexstroke
same throttle bodies
same tranny gear ratios
the s4R's actually got a larger rear sprocket (lower final drive ratio)
only factors that can account for the differences are the airboxes, the fuel injection mapping, and the exhaust systems. the two bikes' airboxes are very similar. if anything, the st4S's is likely more quiet (read: restrictive). so i'm figuring ducati did a better job sorting the fuel map with the st4S and that the 45mm "buldge-free" header on the st4S makes the big difference. the cubic volume of the st4S' mufflers also helps i'm sure, but that's what the buldge in the s4R's header's actually for. exhaust expansion for use in a restrictive system. the diameter's the most obvious factor.
from ducati.com (click on the "POWER CURVE" button on this page http://www.ducati.com/bikes/my2004/...=713&modelName=S4R-04&part=comparison&x=6&y=4 ):
s4R 113 HP @ 8750 RPM
st4S 117 HP @ 8750 RPM
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Strati: I agree with your analysis on the 45mm exhaust. See my note earlier in this message string. That exhaust diameter increase, and of course the matching ECU, is the difference between the Ducati perofrmance kit 1 and kit 2 for the S4.
Jim G
Jim G
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well_armed
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Well-armed: There's another good reason to buy the Ducati listed Termi based solution: warranty.
My dealer for example has told me that if you add Ducati-listed items to your bike, it'd be hard for them to deny a warranty claim (if it's bad for the bike, why do you sell it??). For a non-Ducati part, they have an instant excuse, particularly if the change involves fuel mixture effects.
That $500 saving evaporates pretty quickly if you have to pay for a repair yourself . . . nothing on a Ducati is "cheap" to buy.
Jim G
My dealer for example has told me that if you add Ducati-listed items to your bike, it'd be hard for them to deny a warranty claim (if it's bad for the bike, why do you sell it??). For a non-Ducati part, they have an instant excuse, particularly if the change involves fuel mixture effects.
That $500 saving evaporates pretty quickly if you have to pay for a repair yourself . . . nothing on a Ducati is "cheap" to buy.
Jim G
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well_armed
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Yes, buying parts that do not affect your warranty is a good thing. However, I believe that Ducati does specifically state in their literature that adding on anything will in fact affect your warranty.
After searching this is what I found:
"Legal notice
Warning
the accessories shown should only be installed by skilled personnel at an authorised workshop of an official Ducati dealer.
Fitting accessories not homologated for road use implies the loss of homologation for the entire motorcycle, which will then become legal for track use only. "
It only says something about it affecting your bike if not installed by an authorized Ducati dealer. I think there is a lot of gray area involved with what dealerships will honor or not...
I guess the trick is to find a dealer that is willing to establish a relationship with you and not try and dick you for trying to go with the best system that you feel fit.
The best road to go will probably be to get the full Arrow system, get the ducati performance fuel injectors and air filter...
I just do not want to buy a kit that isnt a full system. Why doesnt Ducati sell a full exhaust system kit yet? Are plans on the way for one?
After searching this is what I found:
"Legal notice
Warning
the accessories shown should only be installed by skilled personnel at an authorised workshop of an official Ducati dealer.
Fitting accessories not homologated for road use implies the loss of homologation for the entire motorcycle, which will then become legal for track use only. "
It only says something about it affecting your bike if not installed by an authorized Ducati dealer. I think there is a lot of gray area involved with what dealerships will honor or not...
I guess the trick is to find a dealer that is willing to establish a relationship with you and not try and dick you for trying to go with the best system that you feel fit.
The best road to go will probably be to get the full Arrow system, get the ducati performance fuel injectors and air filter...
I just do not want to buy a kit that isnt a full system. Why doesnt Ducati sell a full exhaust system kit yet? Are plans on the way for one?
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