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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've done 2 track days at Streets of Willow; first event by TrackDaze last December, second event by HyperCycle yesterday.

Both times I ran the intermediate group, both events there was the street group (slower) and advanced group (faster).

The second event, I was a bit bothered by a good percentage of the riders keeping a good pace on the straightaways, but being pretty slow in the corners.

This may have been mostly from folks moving up from the street group, as *it* was quite crowded, and had rather alarming speed differentials among the riders.

My concerns on moving up to the advanced group are that I don't want to be the 'mobile chicane', and at both events the advanced group had lots more folks hitting the deck than the intermediate group.

Anybody been down this road before?
 

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Did these slow in the corner bikes have a 1000 on the side of them?

From my super limited track experience and just listening to others.. I think that is just the way of the track day until you get into A paced grouping.
 

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Happened to me also. I am by no means fast or even an experianced track rider, but it was very annoying to be held up by the guy on a busa in the corners only for him to blast by me in the straight. I'd say that 70% of the people, in the regular group had liter bikes! We were told that if this happens, take a hot pit and wait for an opening in track space. If you wait and then catch up to those people again, then maybe move up to the faster group. They do have more experiance passing people and hopfully you wont be as big of an obstacle as you think you are.
 

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I definitely don't think moving up to the A group is a good idea. You had better be running really quick to hang with most of those guys and if you're not, you'll be the problem instead of someone else. Every time I hear this question I wonder one thing: if people are holding you up in the corners, why aren't you passing them in the corners? If they're going that slow (as everyone seems to complain that they are), then pass them. Sure they might pass you back on the straights, but it's fun to dice it up a bit right? Also, bigger bikes have lower corner speeds. 1000s often are slower in the corners, because they can't carry the same corner speed and have to wait a bit longer to get on the gas so that they don't highside themselves to the moon. You have to ride a literbike different from a 600 (or a monster for that matter), and the truth is that most people that buy 1000s just buy them because of the same reason that many people buy monsters - better low end grunt. That makes them good streetbikes if they aren't abused, so it should be no suprise that there has been a proliferation of them at trackdays where John Q Public is just having a littel fun on his streetbike. I personally ride (and need to get back into racing) a 600 and I run into slower riders in the corners all the time and when I do, I pass them either on the brakes or on the outside of the turn. If I can't make either one of those passes than they aren't holding me up THAT bad...
 

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At the last track day I was at, because it wasnt the advanced group, no passing in corners was aloud. I dont know if this was the case with Speeddog, but when you arent aloud to pass, it gets frustrating. This is why they told us to hotpit then rejoin when there is open space.
 

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Try a different trackday provider. Some are more organized and feel safer than others. For instance, they shouldn't allow that many people to move in between groups. Also they should be ontrack instructors that should be watching for these things.


another tip, if you get caught behind a slower rider or if they bunch up and you cant pass safely pull into the hot pits, wait for 20-30 seconds then head back out, they wont bother you again.
 

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Vindingo said:
At the last track day I was at, because it wasnt the advanced group, no passing in corners was aloud. I dont know if this was the case with Speeddog, but when you arent aloud to pass, it gets frustrating. This is why they told us to hotpit then rejoin when there is open space.
In the intermediate group? Usually in the slow group that is true, but in the intermediate you can usually pass on the outside in a corner and in the fast group you can pass anywhere it's safe. If they don't allow passing in the corners, go to a different provider.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Just to clear things up a little bit...

Passing was allowed anywhere safe, organizer wanted a 6' side clearance on passes.

I understand why the organizer bumped the faster guys up from the street class, it was too crowded and too much speed differential.
Got no problem with that, the intermediate group was not that crowded.

Not sure what size bikes were the issue, they all look the same to me. :p
 

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That's why I like my local trackday organizer (www.aztrackday.com). They have 4 groups: beginner (slow riders - passing only on straights), super street (faster of slow riders - passing anywhere), intermediate (slower of fast riders) and advanced (fast riders/racers). The groups are surprising close in number of riders per group.
 

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MonsterDuc said:
That's why I like my local trackday organizer (www.aztrackday.com). They have 4 groups: beginner (slow riders - passing only on straights), super street (faster of slow riders - passing anywhere), intermediate (slower of fast riders) and advanced (fast riders/racers). The groups are surprising close in number of riders per group.
That would make the speed within the groups more uniform, but it cuts into track time.

I'd rather be the slower guy in the faster group. I like chasing the rabbit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
ducpainter said:
--------------snip--------------
I'd rather be the slower guy in the faster group. I like chasing the rabbit.
Kinda my thinking.

I'll up the 'passing aggression' level a bit next time out.

I was making up a lot of ground at the ends of the two straightaways, cause I was willing to go into the next section a lot faster.
But passing in those spots was a bit too hairball most of the time.
 

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darylbowden said:
If I can't make either one of those passes than they aren't holding me up THAT bad...
+1. Use the speed differential to learn how to execute safe passes.

MonsterDuc said:
That's why I like my local trackday organizer (www.aztrackday.com). They have 4 groups: beginner (slow riders - passing only on straights), super street (faster of slow riders - passing anywhere), intermediate (slower of fast riders) and advanced (fast riders/racers). The groups are surprising close in number of riders per group.
I used to run with them, but go with T.E.A.M Arizona now. Only three groups, so 20 minutes per session. Gives me just that little bit more time to work on a specific skill/corner in a given session. Also, in the beginner session, you're allowed to pass anywhere - as long as a rider is not wearing an orange vest while riding on the track. If he/she is, then you are NOT allowed to pass them in the corners. Straights are OK.
 

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If you can't make the passes you need to, and make them consistently, then you are probably not ready to move up to the "A" group.

I run a pretty fast "B" pace, and with one org I'll run "A" (it tends to have a little slower riders overall), but "B" is just fine with me on most track days, especially as I get faster. It's amazing how much less ground you lose on the straights if you out drive the other rider - even if they are on a faster bike, it's also amazing how quick you can catch up if you brake later. Twins drive better than 4's, use that to your advantage.

If you really think you are ready to move up - get an instructor to run some laps with you and ask their opinion.
 
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