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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For anyone interested in giving me a little advice. I was hoping to get more miles out of my tires. Heres how they wear....Front: sides worn out but not the middle. Rear: Middle worn out but not the sides. I guess I am breaking into corners and not drivng out of them very hard. Big ol' chicken strips... Also, I hardly ever use the rear brake. I've been trying to brake before the corner and accelerate through the apex but I guess I'm not trying hard enough. Different tires? Ride different? Thats how it goes? Thanks...

09 Monster 696 with termi's and Bridgestone battleaxe bt-0021s

Al
 

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I read somewhere that these dual compound tires may be a bit too hard in the center and soft on the edges to wear evenly. I can't remember what the site was though.

I've only got 1500 on mine so they still look new(ish)
 

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Brake to the apex, accelerate from there. Keep in mind the relationship between braking, acceleration and lean angle.
Rear tire wear could be from excesive upright cruising, commuting, etc. Remember that the rear tire wear will be almost double of the front.
I also don't use a rear brake on a sport bike. Several of my bikes don't even have one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Norm, Thanks for the advice. Could you clarify "the rear tire will be almost double the front"? Do you mean wear and/or tread area? I was thinking about my rides lately, too, some have been on roads I don't know and I have found myself braking deeper into the corners because I am not confident with them. But yeah I'd like to work on that. I don't do too much cruising the flats though. But I do like to gun it off the line, I thought maybe the middle was getting warn by the dragstrip action! I dunno...
Thanks again.
 

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front tire wear

I had the exact same thing on my 696 with bt016s, my local shop said the tires are known to do that. since I got the bike I took the cal superbike school and have been riding more on the throttle through corners. I think i was riding the brake into the corner too before from lack of confidence/experience. Some say ride the brake down to the apex, I race cars and do this all the time to get the car to rotate, but I am no where near as competent on a bike to really trail brake to good ends. Braking sooner and picking up the throttle early and gently after turn in and then rolling it on through the turn smoothed everything out planted the bike for me.
hope this is helpful,
antonio
 

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Odd wear problems can be exagerated by a million different thing, most of which have to do with bike set up. Try a different tire brand and see if the change suits your riding better.
When I was testing new bikes, we always tested at least 2 different tire brands just to make sure that one didn't compromise the handling too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the advice Antonio and Norm. Also, I weigh 200 lbs, and thought maybe the suspension is squatting heavy in the back on acceleration and in the front on braking too. Front isn't adjustable unfortunately, but the back is....I've never messed with suspension before...But I am convinced it has a lot to do with my riding style.
 

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Put a zip tie on the lower fork leg, it will let you know exactly how much of the front suspension you're using.
 

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You should not be braking while leaned over. All braking should be done as upright as possible.

The rear brake is a VERY effective tool. It can be used to trail brake. When you go into a turn too hot the rear brake can be gently applied and it will tighten up your arc.

I have roadraced for years and do have a current CCS liscense and took a couple roadracing schools so this info is not BS
 

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Lot's of different riding styles and theories, but I'm pretty opposed to everything you just said. I'm not going get into who is most qualified or what one race school might say vs another. But.......
Unless you're trying to slide the bike, I consider the rear brake useless on a light, short wheelbase bike. There is more than enough traction up front to lift or float the rear.
Brake to the apex and then accelerate - no coasting.
Touching the rear brake in a turn is a good way to end up on your head. Adjusting the swingarm angle and the moment of the poles with different gearing is the way to get a bike to hold it's line thru a turn.
 

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Lot's of different riding styles and theories, but I'm pretty opposed to everything you just said. I'm not going get into who is most qualified or what one race school might say vs another. But.......
Unless you're trying to slide the bike, I consider the rear brake useless on a light, short wheelbase bike. There is more than enough traction up front to lift or float the rear.
Brake to the apex and then accelerate - no coasting.
Touching the rear brake in a turn is a good way to end up on your head. Adjusting the swingarm angle and the moment of the poles with different gearing is the way to get a bike to hold it's line thru a turn.
I really suggest you get educated on the subject before dismissing anything. It is a common practice. Read any Keith Code book or attend any roadracing school.
correct. there is plenty of traction up front BUT in a straight line, not leaned over. When you have more experience on a track you would see the benefit of the rear brake. Kevin Shwantz once said if someone took the rear brake off his bike he could not ride it.

Ending up on your head from using the rear brake in a turn is just not reality. Just lightly drag it. You have to be a real hamfisted monkey to crash using the back brake in a turn. Try it before you call it BS.

The last statement you say about gearing etc. is kind of funny. It doesn't matter what gearing you have, if you over cook a turn you need to do something.

Seriously though, look up the subject before you put it down, you may learn something. Also, do you currently have a CCS roadracing liscense? Have you taken the schooling in order to get the liscense? have you roadraced for years? If the answer is no than you should be quiet on this subject. I am not trying to be a jerk, really I am not. It's hard not sound that way typing but I just say it like this so you get the point. Read my post a couple down about setting up your rear brake lever with more freeplay. It may save you one day Norm!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hey Shift,
I gotta admit that ever since I put too much rear brake on about 15 yrs ago and had the rear slide out and then hook up, I shied away from the thing. But I think it is time to reintroduce myself to the little lever!
Thanks,
Al
 

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Hey Shift,
I gotta admit that ever since I put too much rear brake on about 15 yrs ago and had the rear slide out and then hook up, I shied away from the thing. But I think it is time to reintroduce myself to the little lever!
Thanks,
Al
No problem guy's! You should really use everything on the motorcycle. It's there for your safety. Try it in baby steps. GENTLY apply the front brake while leaned over and you will see the bike wants to stand up (Although you shouldn't brake while leaned over typically). GENTLY apply the rear brake and watch the arc of your turn tighten up. This may save your life one day. How many of us have overcooked a turn and went over the yellow line trying to slow down? The first thing mostly everyone does is hit the front brake. That is the worst thing as it makes the whole situation worse. The more educated you are on riding techniques the better and safer a rider you will be. Check out the Keith Code books if you doubt anything I am saying. Roadracing for years has tuaght me alot of things about being a safer rider. Think about this, if the rear brake was a death sentence, why would EVERY manufacturer continue to keep putting them on the bikes? It is not because they are stupid. They know how important it is when used correctly.
If your riding around uneducated on what does what on a motorcycle you may lose big time one day. I hate seeing that. You owe it to yourself to at least listen to things like this. It's all about knowing what to do in a panic situation. The more prepared you are the more of a cool head you will have and the better chance you have at riding away. Ride safe!

Here's a tip. Set up your rear brake lever with more freeplay so it only slightly engages but still has power. Make it so it is REALLY difficult to lock up. I did that on all my race bikes.
 

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I enjoy discussing the subject but only if we keep it civil.
I am familiar with Keith Code and his teachings and I (and others) feel that while he is right on many things, he is completely wrong on others.
Yes, I have attended schools and track days. I don't race motorcycles but raced bicycles for many years. I have trained CCS and AMA riders and maintain a dialog with many others (some well known). I have read most available books and have designed and tested the limits of many motorcycles. I feel qualified as a rider coach but my real area of expertise is chassis design and set up. I have written about 90% of a book on basic chassis design, but as a lazy, aging male, it's anybody.s guess whether or not it ever gets finished.
Kevin is a great rider and teacher, but his racing days were prior to good tires, frames, and suspension. The fastest way to turn the bike was to slide the rear tire and get the bike upright as quickly as possible. Today is different. There is a reason why American dirt trackers aren't sought out for the top classes. That honor belong to ex 250 riders and they don't slide the bike to put together a fast lap.
Rear brakes are important on bikes, but on a light weight, short wheelbase sport bike, it will not help you stop faster of safer.
 

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I enjoy discussing the subject but only if we keep it civil.
I am familiar with Keith Code and his teachings and I (and others) feel that while he is right on many things, he is completely wrong on others.
Yes, I have attended schools and track days. I don't race motorcycles but raced bicycles for many years. I have trained CCS and AMA riders and maintain a dialog with many others (some well known). I have read most available books and have designed and tested the limits of many motorcycles. I feel qualified as a rider coach but my real area of expertise is chassis design and set up. I have written about 90% of a book on basic chassis design, but as a lazy, aging male, it's anybody.s guess whether or not it ever gets finished.
Kevin is a great rider and teacher, but his racing days were prior to good tires, frames, and suspension. The fastest way to turn the bike was to slide the rear tire and get the bike upright as quickly as possible. Today is different. There is a reason why American dirt trackers aren't sought out for the top classes. That honor belong to ex 250 riders and they don't slide the bike to put together a fast lap.
Rear brakes are important on bikes, but on a light weight, short wheelbase sport bike, it will not help you stop faster of safer.
wow. How you can train riders and tell them not to use the back brake is frightening. Also saying Keith Code is wrong on many things is crazy. He trians many AMA riders including Ben Spies.
Kevin Shwantz rode 500 GP machines that were and still are state of the art. Saying a 500 GP bike from the mid 90's did not have good tires and bad frames is also rediculous. Watch Nicky Hayden back in his 4 Stroke GP bike. That is as modern as you can get.
Tell Rich Oliver racing a 250 GP back from back in the day or any Lightweight GP riders not to use the back brake and they would laugh at you. I feel you are completly wrong on this and I am not alone. The top riders in the world at the highest level of competition all use the rear brake as a tool. I am not saying to lock up the back tire to turn the bike. Just lightly drag it and see what the bike does. It tightens up your turn arc.
Your last statement is so completely wrong I worry that people are listening to you. Please do not tell riders this. You completely contradict some of the most decorated riders in the world including Kenny Roberts. We are not just saying it will stop you faster but there are other uses of the rear brake.

This is also why I do not do track days. They have "Coaches" who have no business training other riders. They think they are experts but not so. Go to the Penguin Roadracing Advanced school and tell Eric Wood your thoughts and techniques and he would ask you to go back to the Basic course.

Keith Code and Shwantz, Rainey, Doohan, Spies, Mladden, Bostrom, Hacking, Hayden, Yates, Esleck, Duhamel, Russel, Picote, Bayliss, Corser etc. all use the rear brake and Norm from the Ducati Forum say's it's useless. Priceless.
 

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Also, how are you allowed to train CCS and AMA riders whe you have never raced or do not have a racing liscense? Again, frightening. Racing bicycles does not cut it.
 

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I have an M1100S with BT016's on it I have exactly the same wear on the front as you experience. I have worn the tread out both sides of centre on the front. I have no chicken strips on the rear at all.

I posted the same thread as you on Ducati.ms hoping someone could tell me if it was the bike or the tyres. I know the bike has the same geometry as my GSXR and that does not have a problem with front tyre wear. I have never worn out a front tyre before a rear, got like 2500 miles out of the front.
 

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Well, I think it's best if you consider me nuts and I think your nuts. Not much point in going on.
PS: some of the riders you listed don't feel the way you do - call 'em up.
 
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