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Discussion Starter #1
Newbie here. My normal ride is a 2002 HONDA VFR 800 but I'm looking at a Monster 620 for my wife's first bike (she's completed the MSF course and has ridden before).

I took a 2003 620 out for a test ride today and was very impressed. The bike ran great, sounded great and stopped great. My VFR is smoother, but to a fault, you can lose the sense you are on a motorcycle. I really liked the Monster for nailing the essence of motorcycling. We are probably going to buy it but have a couple of questions about the bike the dealership c/n answer (I knew more about the bike than the saleman):

The bike is being listed as a used 2003, but the mileage is noted as, "please call for details." I've been to the dealership twice and the salesperson could not tell me the mileage.

When the salesperson fired up the bike the odometer said "0" for total miles. I played around with the left hand button on the dash pod and could get the odometer to cycle between the "total" and "trip" miles. The total mileage stayed at 0 (increasing to 8 after I finished my test ride). The trip meter had something like 8.3 miles on it when I finished.

I'm beginning to wonder if this may be a new bike because in addition to this the chain still had its wax on it. Also the salesperson could not start the bike at first. The shop mechanic got it started with a red key to defeat the immobilizer. The bike would not start with the other keys.

I looked through the Ducati owners manual on-line but it was very confusing about how to start the bike the first time and what use the red key is. I also checked the FAQ and boards on this site without success.

So, my question is do you think this is a brand new bike or am I sufficiently confused by Italian machinery that it has fooled me? It
 
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I just got a new 03 620 yesterday. Sounds like the salesperson and the mechanic were unaware of the ducati's 15 second electric immobilizer thingy... After you turn the ignition key to on, you have 15 seconds to fire it up or the immobilizer kicks in.

Sounds like a new bike to me. I'd get that instead of the 04.

Good luck.
Gus.
 
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Also, the red key is the master key that you should keep stored in case you loose the other copies. All ducati keys are coded, so in order to make functional copies you need the red key and a code card that is provided upon purchase.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I just got a new 03 620 yesterday.

Congrats on the new bike.

Sounds like the salesperson and the mechanic were unaware of the ducati's 15 second electric immobilizer thingy... After you turn the ignition key to on, you have 15 seconds to fire it up or the immobilizer kicks in.

I dunno. I was there when he put the key in and I'm pretty sure he hit the starter within the 15 sec. window. Could be wrong though, we were trying to make sure it was in neutral and if the sidestand needed to be down. A lot was going on.
 
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So you're say $5700 for what appears to be a brand new 03. Sounds like a no brainer to me. The 04 has a 6 speed and a slipper clutch, but I can't say I'd pay $1300 for those.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
"used" 2003 620 = $6199 list; $6700 tax, title, plates

new 2004 620 = $6999 list, $8000 destination, freight, tax, title, plates

I could avoid about $400 in dealer surcharges by buying used.

The 2003 has the wet clutch according to my 03 brochure.
 

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IMO, I would look for a new dealer, and I'd be worried that he couldn't get the bike started with any of the black keys....
and nobody there could tell you the mileage or if it was a new bike???? Sorta sounds fishy to me.....
Is this dealer a Ducati dealer or is the bike at another brand dealer??

It sounds like a good deal, but I'd be afraid there is something wrong with the immobilizer and it will give you problems or have the bike in the shop for long periods of time, waiting on parts.

I'm sure there are other dealers around that are more knowledgable about the product that they sell and have just as good of deals, I'd shop around some more, but thats just my opinion.

Good Luck!
 
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Just a couple of things. I own a 620 and can definitely report that it has a wet clutch. The '04 has a slipper clutch and a 6-speed, but I wouldn't blow the extra $1300 for it. I absolutely love my 620! As far as the keys go, it may be that the black keys haven't been programmed. Using the code card and the instructions in the manual you should be able to program the black keys to start the bike. We've had computer chip-equipped keys (also called transponder keys) in the auto industry for a few years now and basically if they're not programmed they will turn the ignition lock but not start the car, and in fact will often times immobilize the car so it won't run at all. The coded keys in the Ducati should behave the same way. The red is a master and the code card carries the code needed to program the other keys. Go for the bike, you'll dig it!
 

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Wow, I did get a really good deal on mine.

"used" 2003 620 = $6199 list; $6700 tax, title, plates

new 2004 620 = $6999 list, $8000 destination, freight, tax, title, plates

I could avoid about $400 in dealer surcharges by buying used.

The 2003 has the wet clutch according to my 03 brochure.
$7029 out the door for an '04 620ie with a free helmet. (more on that in the gear section ) :D

All the 620s and 800s have the wet clutch. What the '04 620 has that the '03 doesn't is the PTC or slipper clutch. And about 40% less lever effort and yeah, it's really noticable. That, the 6-spd (which will hopefully give me lower hwy speed RPMs so I can more easily put a 14 tooth front sprocket on) and the std. windscreen all seemed worth the extra money to me.
 

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Like Deb, I'd have some reservations about the dealer from what you've told us. Everyone is offering good deals on leftover '03s (and even older bikes). If you have other dealers around, I'd recommend checking them out.
 

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A couple of thoughts:

If it's listed as used, what does it mean for the warranty?

Is that Marin? Looks like it. Be wary if so....

Yeah, there's something def funny with that key business...from what I understand, if that's a problem, it takes a computer and a very savvy tech to sort it out.

I don't like saying this, but I'd shop around...compare, ask lots of questions before pouncing....

--Shopper--
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks folks,

I'll check out the other threads.

I'm gonna have to wait until Tuesday to get confirmation on the mileage. This is the only Ducati dealership in my part of the state, others are an hour and a half away. They have sold Ducati for a long time, although most of their business is from Honda's and some Kawi's. I would have no choice but to get the bike serviced there too. I think the confusion about the mileage comes from a new salesperson. He was a totally new guy. He handed me his business card and it had another dude's name crossed off of it. He really couldn't answer any of my questions and I really knew more about the bike than he did by just looking at the brochure and checking out some internet resources. But I am troubled that I couldn't even get some basic questions answered. Last year I was looking to buy my VFR at this dealership but they wanted $500 more than another place just down the road from me. But a friend of mine has bought 2 bikes there and been very satisfied.

To clear up something about the key: the bike was first started with the red key, then shut off. It was then started with the black key, which then worked fine. I think the immobilizer is okay but it's just really confusing to me that if this is a used bike, weren't the black keys already coded to work?

5sp vs 6sp: I did my homework on this and don't think it's that big of an issue. I compared the gear ratios of the 5 and 6 speed Monster to my 6 speed VFR.

Ducati 6sp Honda Ducati 5sp
6th gear .923 .965 N/A
5th gear 1.0 1.111 .966
4th gear 1.13 1.291 1.07
3rd gear 1.33 1.578 1.33
2nd gear 1.67 2.062 1.714
1st gear 2.46 2.846 2.5

The biggest difference between the VFR & the Monster is in first & second gears. First gear on the Duc seems almost like gear 1.5. You'll get off the line quicker on the Honda, but in the top gears there isn't much noticeable difference: 6th gear on the Honda is basically the same as 5th on the Monster 5sp.

Trumper: It's definitely not Marin. As for the warranty, if it's sold as used then I basically lose 1 year on the warranty.

I'm gonna wait a couple of days on the decision, until all the facts are in. I wish I had more options, but my wife wants a Ducati Monster. I don't think she would be happy on much else. :D
 

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I also had more miles on the tripmeter than the odometer and I work at the dealership so I know it was not ridden or reset.
If all 3 keys were on the ring that was used it will get confused as it sees more than one code. Sounds like the dealer needed educating on these systems.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You folks have raised some excellent questions. I think I need to go higher in the food chain to get the answers.
 
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the bike could also have been previously titled without an owner ever taking delivery of the bike. legally the bike is considered used. it has happened at my dealership, very akward to explain to a new customer, especially if the salesperson is new, they can make an easy situation difficult by avoiding the question. if you need a carfax run to confirm the miles, let me know-it costs me nothing here. ;D
your wife will be pleased with either bike im sure!
 

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Here are some suggestions FWIW..
If the bike was a trade in they have to have a proper paper trail...ask to look at the odometer statement.. The bike might have have been either traded in without the keys or at least the main red key might have been missing and the dealer then had to replace the ignition set and the gauges which is what is needed PLUS the ECU. OR the bike was a "repo" and they didn't get the original keys.. just ask to look at the paper trail..they must have one in order to sell it.. You don't want to bother with either if they're paperwork isn't in order. Was it maybe crashed, gauges replaced along with keys, ECU etc.. Hope this helps..good luck
 

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Discussion Starter #19
the bike could also have been previously titled without an owner ever taking delivery of the bike. legally the bike is considered used. it has happened at my dealership, very akward to explain to a new customer, especially if the salesperson is new, they can make an easy situation difficult by avoiding the question. if you need a carfax run to confirm the miles, let me know-it costs me nothing here.

If the bike was a trade in they have to have a proper paper trail...ask to look at the odometer statement.. The bike might have have been either traded in without the keys or at least the main red key might have been missing and the dealer then had to replace the ignition set and the gauges which is what is needed PLUS the ECU. OR the bike was a "repo" and they didn't get the original keys.. just ask to look at the paper trail..they must have one in order to sell it.. You don't want to bother with either if they're paperwork isn't in order. Was it maybe crashed, gauges replaced along with keys, ECU etc.. Hope this helps..good luck

Those are some really great suggestions guys. I will definitely check into the paperwork and get some definite answers.

With all this uncertainty I'm probably just going to look at getting a new 04 instead. It's not only the questions, it's the fact that the used bike with have half the warranty of the new one. With all the confusion about the bike (it makes me feel better that you guys are just as unsure as I am) it's probably not worth considering.

I'm going to look for a yellow 2004 at some of the other New England dealers. Maybe I can get one w/o the destination & freight charges tacked on.
 

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you mentioned 1/2 warranty ? The bike should come with the remainer of the factory warranty..ot starts the day the bike is registered with Ducati, when sold your dealer can transfer it into your name. It doesn't get shortened when bike is resold. Also remeber the 04 does have a much easier clutch pull than any other model year..could be a plus for a new rider/wife...

"As for the warranty, if it's sold as used then I basically lose 1 year on the warranty".
 
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