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Discussion Starter #1
I had a custom map made for my S4R yesterday (PCIII,arrow full system, FBF airbox mod). The green line is with the FBF map that came on the powercommander, the blue is with the custom map. It appears to have resulted in a 5hp gain at top end, although I dont know whats up with the miles per hour horizontal coordinate, I'm used to seeing rpms there....any ideas ? Before you say, "something is wrong 107 rwhp is too low for an S4R with a full system",remember I am at 5280ft elevation. Dyno guy said they see 10-15% hp drop due to elevationt. That is consistent with what I saw when I had my Hornet 919 remapped. I will pull the map off the powercomander tonight and would be happy to email it to anyone that would like to try it with their PCIII. Just give me a PM.
 

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cool man...you got remapped...
looks like it was worth it... ;D

bummer about us being at this elevation I must say...

catch ya later...
 

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Discussion Starter #4
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regardless, nice gain up top. surprising to see there's not much in the midrange. hrm...
Strati--Would you have expected the custom map to produce bigger gains in the mid range over FBFs map ? When I had my Hornet remapped, I got little to no gain over the supplied map.
 

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I think what would be helpful is if you had the Air/Fuel Ratio curve plotted on the chart as well. This was you can actually see whats going on with mixture at a given point on the curve.
 
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FBF's map is for "their" full system which is actually a sil motor system. i doubt there's much difference between the performance of the sil motor full system and the arrow full system. it's interesting that FBF's map left that much room for improvement in the upper revs, that's all. but every bike's a bit different, so you might've just gotten a "good one" ;D
I noticed that when looking at ferraci's website, they say its "their" system...but when you look at the text in the dyno plot it reads "sil motor

Check it out: http://www.ferracci.com/2002ferracci/online_catalog/performance_exhaust/dyno-S4R-full-ex-800.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #9
another from Arrows site......S4R system.
Do you have have a stock run also?

No darn it !! I was supposed to get one before the system was installed, but the dyno was down at the time.
 

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Before you say, "something is wrong 107 rwhp is too low for an S4R with a full system", remember I am at 5280ft elevation. Dyno guy said they see 10-15% hp drop due to elevationt.
I thought the dyno numbers were typically compensated for temperature, barometric pressure, humidity, and altitude.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I thought the dyno numbers were typically compensated for temperature, barometric pressure, humidity, and altitude.
Not sure about that--if you look at my dyno chart, there is a number there "0 ft". I dunno...maybe they could have put in an elevation there ? I think that the numbers are the real rwhp, not some altitude compensated value, but I dont know. There is a lot about the whole process that I dont know ??? Including how accurate or competent the dyno and operator are at the shop I went to. I think that there is probably a large margin for error.

The density of the atmosphere at 1 mile elevation is about 85% of what it is at sea level
 

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It is probably enough to factor in temperature and barometric pressure, which he looks to have. And he is using correction factors (C=1.16 and C=1.15), which I would guess reflect these two variables. So my guess is, the numbers are compensated for your altitude...if so, the operator is a moron, for telling you otherwise. Which puts his results into question...

I had my bike dynoed sometime ago, and the operator was showing me the air/fuel chart pointing to me where it was lean, when, in fact, the chart showed it was rich---He was 180 degrees out. I still let that shop change my tires...but I bring the wheel in.

I would call PowerCommader myself and ask: (800) 992-4993

Also, if you have them, put up the torque and air/fuel charts. I think those are more interesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Re: s4r arrow system dyno result

It is probably enough to factor in temperature and barometric pressure, which he looks to have. And he is using correction factors (C=1.16 and C=1.15), which I would guess reflect these two variables. So my guess is, the numbers are compensated for your altitude...if so, the operator is a moron, for telling you otherwise. Which puts his results into question...

I had my bike dynoed sometime ago, and the operator was showing me the air/fuel chart pointing to me where it was lean, when, in fact, the chart showed it was rich---He was 180 degrees out. I still let that shop change my tires...but I bring the wheel in.

I would call PowerCommader myself and ask: (800) 992-4993

Also, if you have them, put up the torque and air/fuel charts. I think those are more interesting.
Maybe I'm unclear on what you meant by "compensated for altitude". I would have a hard time believing that the 107 hp is in reality 15% less. Is that what you meant ? I think I will give dynojet a call just for kicks.

Also, there were not any torque or air/fuel curves, however, couldn't the air/fuel curves be generated from the map ? I know that the torque curve can be easily generated from the hp curve (if the horizontal coord was rpms instead of mph !).
Also, I should note that the dynomometer was a dynojet 200 not a 250 and that the shop is not listed as one of the powercommander tuning centers.
To be honest, I can not really percieve any difference between the two maps. However, I could percieve an improvement between the stock system and the Arrow.
 
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Those maps should be logged into the dyno if done correctly. Call up your dyno shop and ask if he did. If he didnt, well....then only let them change your tire from now on. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Those maps should be logged into the dyno if done correctly. Call up your dyno shop and ask if he did. If he didnt, well....then only let them change your tire from now on. ;)
Well, it is a H0nda shop ;)

I talked to Dynojet and a dynojet 200 can only correctly map the 80% and 100% throttle positions, Which is probably why the differences in maps appears at higher rpms. I confirmed all of this with the dyno tech who did mine. He also said that the 107hp was actual horsepower under the current temp,atmos pressure, etc, but that those values are used by the machine. Anyways, if I ever have this done again, it will be at a "real" dynojet tuning center. For $225 I want the "full monty" ;D
 

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Re: s4r arrow system dyno result

Maybe I'm unclear on what you meant by "compensated for altitude". I would have a hard time believing that the 107 hp is in reality 15% less. Is that what you meant ? I think I will give dynojet a call just for kicks.

Also, there were not any torque or air/fuel curves, however, couldn't the air/fuel curves be generated from the map ? I know that the torque curve can be easily generated from the hp curve (if the horizontal coord was rpms instead of mph !).
Also, I should note that the dynomometer was a dynojet 200 not a 250 and that the shop is not listed as one of the powercommander tuning centers.
To be honest, I can not really percieve any difference between the two maps. However, I could percieve an improvement between the stock system and the Arrow.
What I mean is, if you brought your bike, that dyno, and that same operator to sea level, let him measure and factor in ambient temperature and barometric pressure, and let him apply whatever conversion factor those new variables called for, he should measure the very same, 107 hp, here at sea level.

Keep in mind, I do not know if his numbers would be accurate, your bike could really make 125 hp (or, for that matter, 95 hp) just that his horsepower numbers should remain constant. I just think this is a process that needs to be applied from hour to hour, day to day even on the same dyno in the same town to get comparable readings.

Funny, the shop that did that one dyno run for me was also an "outlaw". They had bought the Dynojet secondhand... Powercommander had never heard of them.

Powercommander trains their authorized shops for consistency. Even pointing the fans wrong can affect the readings...
 

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I don't know why you'd want to do that... Truth is that RWHP on a normally aspirated engine is going to be less at 5k ft or 7k ft than at sea level (I keep hearing that a 1000 ft increase n altitude is equivalent to a 3% reduction in RWHP). Wouldn't you want to know the approximate HP where you actually ride than some mystical number representing the HP you'd have at the beach?

--Fillmore
 

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I don't know why you'd want to do that... Truth is that RWHP on a normally aspirated engine is going to be less at 5k ft or 7k ft than at sea level (I keep hearing that a 1000 ft increase n altitude is equivalent to a 3% reduction in RWHP). Wouldn't you want to know the approximate HP where you actually ride than some mystical number representing the HP you'd have at the beach?

--Fillmore
I'm not sure you understood my post. That was an example...

I understand, very well, the relationship between altitude and horsepower:

http://speedzilla.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=18318
 

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So, I just got off the phone with Keith at Dynojet...There is absolutely nothing in my earlier posts that needs to be changed.

The answer was in front of us the whole time...

Look to the far left side of the chart Humungus posted:

SAE Corrected Horsepower


Perhaps, if it would make it a little easier for Fillmore to understand, we could change it to:

SAE Mystical Horsepower
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: s4r arrow system dyno result

What I mean is, if you brought your bike, that dyno, and that same operator to sea level, let him measure and factor in ambient temperature and barometric pressure, and let him apply whatever conversion factor those new variables called for, he should measure the very same, 107 hp, here at sea level.

Keep in mind, I do not know if his numbers would be accurate, your bike could really make 125 hp (or, for that matter, 95 hp) just that his horsepower numbers should remain constant. I just think this is a process that needs to be applied from hour to hour, day to day even on the same dyno in the same town to get comparable readings.

Funny, the shop that did that one dyno run for me was also an "outlaw". They had bought the Dynojet secondhand... Powercommander had never heard of them.

Powercommander trains their authorized shops for consistency. Even pointing the fans wrong can affect the readings...
Thanks for clarifying. The dyno tech said he has seen 20% variations between different dynomometers. I guess in some sense it is just a realtive measurement ? My bike feels like it is running great and knowing what I know now (not much ;) ) I wont put too much absolute credibility into the dyno results. Its not exactly like going to the doctors and having your blood pressure checked , is it ? :)
 
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