[krunkosaurus]

Hi guys,

So I got a "Notice of Traffic Violation" in the mail which pretty much ended up being triggered by a right turn I made on a "just red" 2-weeks ago.

I've never gotten one of these automated tickets before (much less a real traffic ticket since I was 18, half a decade ago) — boggling how all this can be "computerized" now...

Anyways, the letter in the mail had some color photos of me in action, your typical traffic form, and a link to a website. I've ripped a copy of my citation page (I think every citizen should be able to see what this process looks like) so you can check out the video and photo footage on it: http://readystate4.com/ticket/

I researched around a bit on what all this is about:
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/ (Info & Advice about California Red Light Camera Tickets)
http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamscameras.htm#Emeryville (Specific to the small city of Emeryville which has 3 of these setup)
http://www.ci.emeryville.ca.us/index.aspx?NID=301 (City of Emeryville, CA Red Light Photo Enforcement page where they list the $436 fine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_enforcement_camera - more info on these setups

And with the following above links I gather:
1) The ticket is roughly $436 if I plead guilty. The city of Emeryville can issue over 1,000 citations a month for only one of their three locations. This is for a town of 10,000 people.
2) There may be an option for traffic school for first-time offenders - I'm not sure if this reduces / removes the fine and the point on my record if I choose to take it—anyone have an idea on this?
3) Both highwayrobbery.net and the Wiki page listed that in order to receive an automated citation a clear picture of you (your face) violating the law has to be presented—obviously I wear a motorcycle helmet and you can't see my face. Does this hold any ground?

And if you have GPS - I found a link from a past MB posts where you could avoid my situation in the future:
http://poidirectory.com/poifiles/?list=united_states/safety/

Best,

Max

 

[Scissors]

Usual disclaimer: Local laws may vary.

That being said, no, there is no requirement generally that a picture of your face be taken by an automated system to prove that you were behind the wheel when your vehicle was used to commit a traffic infraction. The primary reason for this is that it's not a criminal charge, so the burden of proof is significantly less. Just like illegal parking, there's no need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were directly at fault in your vehicle being used improperly.

In your case, however, it appears that you may be in one of those jurisdicitions where there is a requirement that a picture of your face be taken. So just ride with a mirrored visor and you're good to go. lol

 

[Red Dragon]

red light cams!

We have 'em everywhere!!! Even have speeding cams on the stinkin' freeways here in Mesa, AZ, next to PHX. I think they are all over the valley though. My wife got a red light ticket 'cause she didn't clear crosswalk lines before turning red, she was in yellow light 95% of intersection. The rear tires behind line, front past line. Crazy. But, anyway the picture of car, license and her face was like you were there! She even had those bug-eyed girly sunglasses on. No disputing that one. I got a speeding one and just acted like I never saw it and never heard anything about it again. It costs money to send certified mail if you don't respond. That was a while back though. I really don't have a point, do I??? Oh well, ride on brother.

 

[justpaul]

I got a speeding one and just acted like I never saw it and never heard anything about it again. It costs money to send certified mail if you don't respond. That was a while back though. I really don't have a point, do I??? Oh well, ride on brother.

You may not have a point, but you may well have a warrant out on you. You'll probably only find out if and when you get pulled over and they run your license. They don't tend to come looking for you for traffic violations. But if they find you, it's another story. Might be worth finding out for sure.

 

[idrivedanger]

i have gotten and fought 2 of these tickets. one i won, one i didnt. the SAFEST route (in terms of for your insurance etc etc) is to just bit the bullet, pay your ticket and go to traffic school. no points on your record, however if you get a ticket again in the next 18 months you will not be able to take traffic school for that. if you want to "save" your traffic school for your next ticket, or if you are pissed that the government is trying to steal your money. you can fight it, take note if you decide to plead not guilty and fight it, then you cannot go to traffic school if they find you guilty. if you do fight it, make sure to do it as a trial by declaration, whcih means you dont have to go into court or make any appearances, everthign is done via mail. all of this and more is explained at the site http://www.ticketassassin.com/index.html good luck!

 

[wmhayes]

Darn! Sure makes me glad that I ride in Kentucky and S. Indiana. Hell, they don't have many stop lights, let alone cameras to ticket drivers.

 

[Capo]

There is a delay between the light turning red and the activation of the camera. If you trip it while the light is red, then you ran the red period. The amber gives warning that the light is about to turn red and should be used to slow down in preparation to coming to a full stop. (Although the opposite reaction of increasing speed "to make the light" is common).

Signal light controlled intersections rely on strict observance of the signals, we accept that the green means we can sail through without a danger of collision, we should also accept that a red means don't cross in order to facilitate the safe passage of others.

Here in this country its all automated, cutting edge technology reads the plate number and automatically mails the fine to the registered owner of the vehicle, facial recognition is soon to be added.

This plate recognition technology is also used by law enforcement to check if the vehicle has paid the road tax, is insured and has a current inspection certificate. Its blindingly fast reading the plate and providing the result in under 3 seconds this from a van that contains the camera parked by the side of the road. A roadblock further on is informed by radio of offenders. The plate numbers of vehicles used by known criminals and drug dealers are flagged and these vehicles can be stopped, searched and the occupants questioned.

Average speed cameras infest our road network, a series of cameras read your plate as you pass then reads it again when you pass the next, it calculates the time taken and if below the set time, issues the fine.

Penalties a somewhat draconian, the fine for speeding is a fixed amount and also carries 3 penalty points (a total of 12 and your out), however if decide to exercise your rights and challenge the fine in court, the fine is doubled and you will also be liable for all court costs.

Vehicles without insurance are impounded and crushed if not retrieved within one month Vehicles may also be confiscated and immediately crushed according to law enforcement procedures.

The is talk (and indeed a system has been tested) of requiring all vehicles to be fitted with a GPS transponder that reports (and records) the exact location and speed of the vehicle, this will enable a 'road pricing' structure to be introduced varying the tax by type of road and time of day, all roads become toll roads a monthly bill will be sent to the owner, don't pay it and the local law enforcement will be informed of the location of the vehicle and it will be impounded. The system will be connected to the vehicle ECU so that if the GPS unit is removed, the vehicle will not operate. RFID tags in the plate will be read by road side sensors, if no corresponding GPS signal is present, the vehicle is identified. A record of the movement of every vehicle is maintained.

it will of course monitor the speed of the vehicle and knowing the speed limit of EVERY road, and issue fines if these are exceeded.

A huge protest caused the government to announce that the system would not be implemented, however it continues to fund the development of it.

I've still got a triumph that has a magneto and 6 volt electrics I reckon that will be GPS free.

 

[Red Dragon]

Rlcams

You may not have a point, but you may well have a warrant out on you. You'll probably only find out if and when you get pulled over and they run your license. They don't tend to come looking for you for traffic violations. But if they find you, it's another story. Might be worth finding out for sure.

OHHH, I am by no means saying it was a smart decision. No warrant, I checked later on and I have been pulled over since and no mention. I think I didn't respond because I am lazy and was pretty young/dumb when it happened. The cams were fairly new then and the word on the street was "How can they prove you received the ticket?" My answer was "They can't, yeah!" Lucky. Take care.

 

[Red Dragon]

There is a delay between the light turning red and the activation of the camera. If you trip it while the light is red, then you ran the red period. The amber gives warning that the light is about to turn red and should be used to slow down in preparation to coming to a full stop. (Although the opposite reaction of increasing speed "to make the light" is common).

Signal light controlled intersections rely on strict observance of the signals, we accept that the green means we can sail through without a danger of collision, we should also accept that a red means don't cross in order to facilitate the safe passage of others.

Here in this country its all automated, cutting edge technology reads the plate number and automatically mails the fine to the registered owner of the vehicle, facial recognition is soon to be added.

This plate recognition technology is also used by law enforcement to check if the vehicle has paid the road tax, is insured and has a current inspection certificate. Its blindingly fast reading the plate and providing the result in under 3 seconds this from a van that contains the camera parked by the side of the road. A roadblock further on is informed by radio of offenders. The plate numbers of vehicles used by known criminals and drug dealers are flagged and these vehicles can be stopped, searched and the occupants questioned.

Average speed cameras infest our road network, a series of cameras read your plate as you pass then reads it again when you pass the next, it calculates the time taken and if below the set time, issues the fine.

Penalties a somewhat draconian, the fine for speeding is a fixed amount and also carries 3 penalty points (a total of 12 and your out), however if decide to exercise your rights and challenge the fine in court, the fine is doubled and you will also be liable for all court costs.

Vehicles without insurance are impounded and crushed if not retrieved within one month Vehicles may also be confiscated and immediately crushed according to law enforcement procedures.

The is talk (and indeed a system has been tested) of requiring all vehicles to be fitted with a GPS transponder that reports (and records) the exact location and speed of the vehicle, this will enable a 'road pricing' structure to be introduced varying the tax by type of road and time of day, all roads become toll roads a monthly bill will be sent to the owner, don't pay it and the local law enforcement will be informed of the location of the vehicle and it will be impounded. The system will be connected to the vehicle ECU so that if the GPS unit is removed, the vehicle will not operate. RFID tags in the plate will be read by road side sensors, if no corresponding GPS signal is present, the vehicle is identified. A record of the movement of every vehicle is maintained.

it will of course monitor the speed of the vehicle and knowing the speed limit of EVERY road, and issue fines if these are exceeded.

A huge protest caused the government to announce that the system would not be implemented, however it continues to fund the development of it.

I've still got a triumph that has a magneto and 6 volt electrics I reckon that will be GPS free.

I am not saying she's innocent! She did the opposite and sped up, na good. But, have you seen the flashes out here? As soon as it turns red it looks like the paparazzi at the intersections. INtersections have red light running, left turn cams, speeding cams and just straight real time feed. But, hey my opinion is whatever? Don't drive like an idiot and pay attention and you won't have to worry about it, right? Well all the other stuff you say the Gov. is trying to implement I find very hard to believe. Way OVERBOARD!! Never ever happen. I'd bet that bank on that one! Take care, brother.

 

[justpaul]

OHHH, I am by no means saying it was a smart decision. No warrant, I checked later on and I have been pulled over since and no mention. I think I didn't respond because I am lazy and was pretty young/dumb when it happened. The cams were fairly new then and the word on the street was "How can they prove you received the ticket?" My answer was "They can't, yeah!" Lucky. Take care.

Good for you. I got stuck in traffic on my way to court, got their late, and they were already typing up the warrant when I went in to pay the ticket.

 

[frankZ]

There has been a debate going on regarding red light camera device. Drivers nationwide are questioning its cost and effectiveness. The device takes a picture of a driver and his or her license plate when they drive through a red light. Obviously, motorists hate it as they feel the gadgets are designed to make money for a city, and not to catch bad-guys. However, two devices have just appeared that use similar technology to make red-light camera photos useless to police force. One of the gadgets can be bought now. The other is still raising money to get UL certification. Here is the source: Red-light Cameras.

 

[1UglyBastard]

There has been a debate going on regarding red light camera device. Drivers nationwide are questioning its cost and effectiveness. The device takes a picture of a driver and his or her license plate when they drive through a red light. Obviously, motorists hate it as they feel the gadgets are designed to make money for a city, and not to catch bad-guys. However, two devices have just appeared that use similar technology to make red-light camera photos useless to police force. One of the gadgets can be bought now. The other is still raising money to get UL certification. Here is the source: Red-light Cameras.

$800? I'll just keep my bike's license plate tucked for free

 

[jduke]

The way they got around the legal point here in Savannah, Georgia was to turn the ticketing process over the the parking department. It's not a moving violation now, but a "parking" violation. Handed by a different court and you're guilty as soon as you walk in.
There's been so much bitching and moaning to the politicians they haven't fixed a couple that were damaged.

 

[3th3r]

Meanwhile, in LOS ANGELES COUNTY

"you can ignore that red-light camera ticket if it's issued within L.A. County. Yes, a $300 fine is possible if you end up in the same court, in person, that has your red-light camera ticket on file, but it's rare"

SOURCE:

http://www.laweekly.com/news/everyt...out-ignoring-red-light-camera-tickets-5146123

 

[riggskwong41]

www.beatthelight.com

I bought a plate cover that goes over the plate and distorts the view. Pretty trick and works great against cameras.

 

[tunnelvision748]

Years ago I tried to fight one of these once, before I fought it they let me watch video of the same incident. I was clearly at fault and paid them right then and there.

But...recently, I went to court for a different traffic violation. The judge started the session by telling everyone that because the 'expert' for stop light cameras was unavailable, that all disputes involving red light cameras would automatically be dismissed. My own citation was dismissed as well.

My point is, if you try and fight it.. you do have a chance, but a small one. Sometimes you just have to roll the dice.

 

[Skybarney]

Good for you. I got stuck in traffic on my way to court, got their late, and they were already typing up the warrant when I went in to pay the ticket.

You should'a driven faster to court, maybe run some lights. If I lived in a town with those cameras all over the place they would not be there for long.

Out where I live they call those things targets.