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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since I see vendors being libelled frequently here, can we as vendors factually post about abusive customers? Why be reactive when WE can be proactive?

I mean, it's only fair, right?

I'm currently being abused for a $15 error in an international transaction that's $1779. Oh, and no one else would ship these parts to them because no one else does international shipping as willingly as we do. Or did...?

Even though they've upped my meds, I'm telling you all that every time I see libellous posts, have problem transactions, or get abused over a 0.8% error, the cost outweighs the benefits of being a sponsor. BTW, without exception, EVERY problem transaction, unfair threat to call credit card companies, and each "fired customer" I have has come from the DML.

I've talked to monsterhooligan about the philosophy of this before.

Giving technical support to potential customers? That's great. I love helping to educate riders about products or things in the industry. I don't really mind if they ask about things I'm not selling or if they buy elsewhere (as long as they don't first promise me the business). Pretty often, I'll suggest that for the best customer service, the customer visits their local shop and buy the item from them, so they get to make a few extra $ in profit. And I totally don't mind post sale support phone calls. Occasionally, we'll forget to add on the 15% DML discount. We're very quick to correct those. My company deeply respects people's money and that's why we have pretty generous practices of taking care of people.

But this transaction? It's consumed so much time and generating such negativity that I wish it hadn't ever happened.

Is it such the crime to humanity that the few people barely eeking out a living trying to serve your needs are sometimes too busy to reply to an e-mail in a day? Or when half of their workforce is gone, a delayed notification is grounds for lawsuit? Or when the principle of a small company is laid up in the hospital a great excuse for OMG WTFAREMY PARTS GODDAMYOU!!!!1!!!!11tyMMM IF there was real money to be had selling to the 2 or 3% of the motorcycle market, I'm sure AOL or Sony would be all over it. [cheeky]

Why are there such horrible attitudes and mean people here on the DML? ???

[/rant]

Thanks for the stage. Be respectful and intelligent in ensuing discourse or I'll just delete the thread.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Oh, $15 credit going to the card right now. That was never in question. But the severity of the abuse over zero point eight percent!?

;D
 

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Conflict in Cyberspace:
How to Resolve Conflict Online
Kali Munro, M.Ed., Psychotherapist

www.KaliMunro.com



Have you ever noticed how conflict can get blown out of proportion online? What may begin as a small difference of opinion, or misunderstanding, becomes a major issue very quickly. Conflict can be difficult at the best of times, but what is it about online communication that seems to ignite ?flaming? and make conflicts more difficult to resolve?

There are a number of reasons to explain why conflict may be heightened online. One is the absence of visual and auditory cues. When we talk to someone in person, we see their facial expressions, their body language, and hear their tone of voice. Someone can say the exact same thing in a number of different ways, and that usually effects how we respond.

For example, someone could shout and shake their finger at you, or they could speak gently and with kindness. They could stand up and tower over you, or they could sit down beside you. How you feel, interpret, and respond to someone?s message often depends on how they speak to you, even when it?s a difficult message to hear.

In online communications, we have no visual or auditory cues to help us to decipher the intent, meaning, and tone of the messenger. All we have are the words on a computer screen, and how we hear those words in our head. While people who know each other have a better chance at accurately understanding each others? meaning and intentions, even they can have arguments online that they would not have in-person.


Projections and Transference
While many people are convinced that how they read an email is the only way it can be read, the truth is, how we read a text, or view a work of art, often says more about ourselves than it does about the message or the messenger.

All of our communications, online and in real-time, are filled with projections. We perceive the world through our expectations, needs, desires, fantasies, and feelings, and we project those onto other people. For example, if we expect people to be critical of us, we perceive other people?s communication as being critical - it sounds critical to us even though it may not be. We do the same thing online; in fact we are more likely to project when we are online precisely because we don?t have the visual or auditory cues to guide us in our interpretations. How we ?hear? an email or post is how we hear it in our own heads, which may or may not reflect the tone or attitude of the sender.

We usually can?t know from an email or post alone whether someone is shouting, using a criticizing tone, or speaking kindly. Unless the tone is clearly and carefully communicated by the messenger, and/or we are very skilled at understanding text and human communication, we most likely hear the voice we hear, or create in our head and react to that. This is one of the reasons why controversial or potentially conflictual issues are best dealt with by using great care and explicit expressions of our tone, meaning, and intent.

Where do projections come from? They come from our life experiences - how we?ve been treated, how important figures in our lives have behaved, how we felt growing up, how we responded and coped, etc. All of us project or transfer our feelings and views of important figures in our lives onto other people.

To take a look at your own projections or transference with people online, think back to the last time you felt angry at someone online. What was it about them or their email that made you so angry? What did you believe that they were doing to you or someone else? How did you react internally and externally? Was your reaction to this person (whether spoken or not) influenced by someone or something from your past? While it certainly happens that people are treated with disrespect and anger online, if there are any parallels between this experience and any of your past experiences, it?s likely that how you felt and responded was coloured by your past. When our past is involved, particularly when we are unaware of it happening, we invariably project and transfer old feelings onto the present situation.



Disinhibition Effect

Conflict can be heightened online by what is known as the ?disinhibition effect?, a phenomenon that psychologist, Dr. John Suler, has written extensively about. Suler writes,


?It's well known that people say and do things in cyberspace that they wouldn't ordinarily say or do in the face-to-face world. They loosen up, feel more uninhibited, express themselves more openly. Researchers call this the "disinhibition effect." It's a double-edged sword. Sometimes people share very personal things about themselves. They reveal secret emotions, fears, wishes. Or they show unusual acts of kindness and generosity. On the other hand, the disinhibition effect may not be so benign. Out spills rude language and harsh criticisms, anger, hatred, even threats.? (Suler, 2002)

Suler explains that the disinihibition effect is caused by or heightened by the following features of online communication:

a) anonymity - no one knows who you are on the net, and so you are free to say whatever you want without anyone knowing it?s you who said it.

b) invisibility - you don't have to worry about how you physically look or sound to other people when you say something. You don't have to worry about how others look or sound when you say something to them. ?Seeing a frown, a shaking head, a sigh, a bored expression, and many other subtle and not so subtle signs of disapproval or indifference can slam the breaks on what people are willing to express.? (Suler, 2002)

c) delayed reactions - you can say anything you think and feel without censorship at any time, including in the middle of the night when you?re most tired and upset, leave immediately without waiting for a response, and possibly never return - in the extreme this can feel to someone like an emotional ?hit and run?.

d) the perception that the interaction is happening in your head - with the absence of visual and auditory cues you may feel as though the interaction is occurring in your head. Everyone thinks all kinds of things about other people in their minds that they would never say to someone?s face - online, you can say things you?d otherwise only think.

e) neutralizing of status - in face-to-face interactions, you may be intimidated to say something to someone because of their job, authority, gender, or race. Because this is not visible to you online, you feel freer to say what ever you want to anyone.

f) your own personality style may be heightened online - for example, if your communication style tends to be reactive or angry, you may be more reactive or angry online.


Tips for Resolving Conflict Online

What can be done to prevent unnecessary conflict in cyberspace? The following are tips for handling conflict online with respect, sensitivity, and care:


Don?t respond right away
When you feel hurt or angry about an email or post, it?s best not to respond right away. You may want to write a response immediately, to get it off your chest, but don't hit send! Suler recommends waiting 24 hours before responding - sleep on it and then reread and rewrite your response the next day.


Read the post again later
Sometimes, your first reaction to a post is a lot about how you're feeling at the time. Reading it later, and sometimes a few times, can bring a new perspective. You might even experiment by reading it with different tones (matter-of-fact, gentle, non-critical) to see if it could have been written with a different tone in mind than the one you initially heard.


Discuss the situation with someone who knows you
Ask them what they think about the post and the response you plan to send. Having input from others who are hopefully more objective can help you to step back from the situation and look at it differently. Suler recommends getting out of the medium in which the conflict occurred - in this case talking to someone in person - to gain a better perspective.


Choose whether or not you want to respond
You do have a choice, and you don?t have to respond. You may be too upset to respond in the way that you would like, or it may not be worthy of a response. If the post is accusatory or inflammatory and the person?s style tends to be aggressive or bullying, the best strategy is to ignore them.


Assume that people mean well, unless they have a history or pattern of aggression
Everyone has their bad days, gets triggered, reacts insensitively, and writes an email without thinking it through completely. It doesn?t mean that they don?t have good intentions.

On the other hand, some people pick fights no matter how kind and patient you are with them. They distort what you say, quote you out of context, and make all sorts of accusations all to vilify and antagonize you. Don't take the "bait" by engaging in a struggle with them - they'll never stop. Sometimes, the best strategy is to have nothing more to do with someone.


Clarify what was meant
We all misinterpret what we hear and read, particularly when we feel hurt or upset. It?s a good idea to check out that you understood them correctly. For example, you could ask, ?When you said...did you mean...or, what did you mean by...?? Or, ?when you said...I heard...is that what you meant?? Often times, what we think someone said is not even close to what they meant to say. Give them the benefit of the doubt and the chance to be clear about what they meant.


Think about what you want to accomplish by your communication
Are you trying to connect with this person? Are you trying to understand them and be understood? What is the message you hope to convey? What is the tone you want to communicate? Consider how you can convey that.


Verbalize what you want to accomplish
Here are some examples, ?I want to understand what you?re saying.? ?I feel hurt by some stuff that you said. I want to talk about it in a way that we both feel heard and understood.? ?I want to find a way to work this out. I know we don?t agree about everything and that?s okay. I?d like to talk with you about how I felt reading your post.? ?I hope we can talk this through because I really like you. I don?t want to be argumentative or blaming.?


Use ?I? statements when sharing your feelings or thoughts
For example, ?I feel...? versus ?You made me feel...?


Use strictly feeling statements
Feeling statements include saying you felt hurt, sad, scared, angry, happy, guilty, remorseful, etc. In everyday conversations, we describe our feelings differently than this. For example, we say that we felt ?attacked?, ?threatened?, ?unsafe?, or ?punched in the stomach?. When the person we?re upset with is not present, or able to read our words, this is an understandable way to express the full depth of our feelings and experience. Generally though, these statements are not simply feeling statements because they contain within them unexpressed beliefs. For example, you believe that you were attacked by the person, not that it just felt that way. If you want to communicate with the person involved (or they can read your words), it is best to stick to simple feeling statements otherwise they will hear you as accusing them of attacking them and be angry or upset with you. Some people get confused why other people get upset with them when they think they are only expressing their feelings; usually in these cases there were unstated beliefs expressed which the person reacted to.


Choose your words carefully and thoughtfully, particularly when you?re upset
Do your best to keep in mind that the person will read your post alone. You are not physically or virtually present with them to clarify what you meant, and they can?t see the kindness in your eyes. They must rely entirely on your words to interpret your meaning, intent, and tone. This is why it?s important to choose your words carefully and thoughtfully. You can still be real and honest while being selective.


Place yourself in the other person?s shoes
How might they hear your message? To avoid unnecessary conflict or a lot of hurt feelings, it helps to take into account who you?re writing to. One person might be able to hear you say it exactly how you think it, and another person would be threatened by that style of communication. Think about the other person when writing your email or post. Do your best to communicate in a way that is respectful, sensitive, and clear to them. People often say, to do that feels like they?re being controlled and why shouldn?t they just write it the way they want to. Of course you can write it any way you want, especially online, but if you want to communicate with this person and have them hear and understand what you?re saying, it helps to think about how they will hear it.


Use emoticons to express your tone
In online communication, visual and auditory cues are replaced by emoticons, for example, smiles, winks, and laughter. It helps to use emoticons to convey your tone. Additionally, if you like the person, tell them! Having a conflict or misunderstanding doesn?t mean you don?t like the person any more, but people often forget that reality, or don?t think to say it. It may be most needed during a tense interaction.


Start and end your post with positive, affirming, and validating statements
Say what you agree with, what you understand about how they feel, and any other positive statements at the beginning of your email. This helps set a positive tone. End on a positive note as well.



The Paradox of Online Communication
Handling conflict constructively is hard at the best times, and it can be even harder online. It can take a great deal of effort, care, and thoughtfulness to address differences, tensions, and conflicts online. Paradoxically, some of the same things that contribute to heightened conflict online can contribute to peaceful resolutions as well. The internet is an ideal place to practice communication and conflict resolution skills. Just as the absence of visual and auditory cues, the anonymity, invisibility, delayed reactions, and neutralizing of status free us to say what ever negative thing we want, they can also free us to try new, and more positive communication styles and to take all the time we need to do that. As with any new technology, the internet can be used to enhance our personal growth and relationships, or to alienate us from each other. It?s our choice.
 
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IMHO...today's society is all about instant gratification. Me first seems to be the general consensus and most times I find this disgusting. Whatever happened to extending courtesy and exhibiting patience? I have not had any bad experience with you and I hope this does not further discourage you with the Ducati populace.
 

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It is not just bikes. I Repair autos for a living. Just the other day our shop (thankfully) lost a customer over $20.

A part that we installed for him failed through no fault of our own. We replaced the part and charged him $20 for replacing it. He proceeded to spew profanities and express that he would no onger do business with us. GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!.

People are dickheads and unfortunately one cannot avoid dealing with them.

I for one appreciate the time you have spent explaining certain technical oddities to me over the phone and will be placing an order with you soon (with or without the DML discount).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks eRacer777.

TerribleTabo: Your post is nice but pointless. In this case, I got jumped on. In my rapid response, I credited for the mistake and also for a mistaken extra part that I'll never have returned. Never once was I rude or pushy. The attitude given to me was very entitled (I'm seeing a lot of that from the DML) and THERE WAS ALSO SOME YELLING.

My rush response? Here's your credit, thanks for your business. I hope this concludes our transaction. Business is a two way street and supposed to be mutually beneficial. Ours wasn't.

eRacer777 said it well. Disrespect is not excused.
 

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I think sometimes it's a combo of a bad day and it's the smallest of things that can turn people flammable. I think there's a bit of additional anxiety attached to big international orders over the internet, too.

And I'm not defending the angry or unreasonably flamethrower customers.


As for why it's all from the DML? ???

The "new" DML has a lot of community members. A lot more people in a population means some will inevitably act like a horse's ass. :-\


You've made a pretty substantial fan base here too, don't forget... [thumbsup]
 

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TerribleTabo, thanks for that. It is very useful.

I for one have not used the DML discount and have stayed away from the vendor-customer conflicts of the board up until now. Mainly because I try to avoid the generalizations that result from highly localized problems (a specific vendor with a specific customer, over a specific item/ transaction). The problem is that Messages Boards are public domains and what becomes true for one, grows into an axiom.

This does not explain the repetitive offenders. That is, IMO the outcome of entitlement and the fears of hearsays. But this in itself is a generalization. Folks might have specific gripes, which are or aren't justified.

I would say that the worth of a particular transaction should not be the basis of a business practice on either side (vendor or customer) because it is never about the quantity, but rather the "meaning" behind the practice. If someone gives a discount over $5, it is a gesture of appreciation. If you equally miscalculate and overcharge for that same amount, it is the gesture which causes the impression.

While experience might tell you, Chris, that everyone you have dealt with in the DML has been a problem, it does not mean that we all are. I know you are not saying that, but it could easily be constructed in this manner, given the actual "practice" of language in that particular instance.

This brings us back to the title of this thread: People Being Mean. If we could find a way to not read into "actions" what we fear (they are trying to screw me over) then we might be able to see things for what they are: mistakes, frustrations, etc. Understanding goes a long way. If we can make the basic assumption that Vendors vend and are dependent on that, while customers consume those vended goods, we might all decide to be understanding. Since we are mutually dependent in our needs, not in our demands. Or sense of entitlement for that matter.
 

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I'm not familiar with your site, so forgive me if you already have this covered, but perhaps stating something about the size of your company, the potential variances in response and reasons for it, overall timeframes for certain things (like credits), etc on the site, in an auto reply email, and on order confirmations might help a bit. I'm thinking that unless otherwise stated people have an expectation of quick replies or whatnot based on their experience elsewhere, or have fears of being taken advantage of online with regards to credits, and then of course, many people are just being impatient and there will be lots that are just jerks. The jerk factor seems to be on the increase out there, people just have lost any sense of empathy or common sense and it is making itself apparent in many ways. It is hard not to stress when you encounter it but all you can do is figure that it is out of your control, do some deep breathing and do your best to protect your own sanity and health.

Some people do have real issues with vendors and it can be difficult to differentiate the two on the board - but try not to take it personally.
 

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I think you hit on it, Chris, when you used 'entitlement'. It seems like everyone is 'entitled' to **** that they AREN'T ENTITLED TO! Having done business with you, and gotten advice from you, I can't understand why someone would treat you that way. Keep up the good work, Chris. I, for one, think you're the best out there.

GregorMac
 

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eRacer777 said:
IMHO...today's society is all about instant gratification. Me first seems to be the general consensus and most times I find this disgusting. Whatever happened to extending courtesy and exhibiting patience? I have not had any bad experience with you and I hope this does not further discourage you with the Ducati populace.
GIR said:
... The jerk factor seems to be on the increase out there, people just have lost any sense of empathy or common sense and it is making itself apparent in many ways. It is hard not to stress when you encounter it but all you can do is figure that it is out of your control, do some deep breathing and do your best to protect your own sanity and health.

Some people do have real issues with vendors and it can be difficult to differentiate the two on the board - but try not to take it personally.
+1 to both of these points, I don't think people realize that in our little world, good vendors are very few and far between, having one on your side really really really makes a huge difference
 

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Doh, I am familiar with your site - didn't notice it was Cycleworks at first, sorry!
 

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I try and stay out of these threads, but I'll jump in on this.

I've been in the "service" business my whole life. Cars, trucks, and now bikes. There is no explaining some peoples behavior when it comes to the way they treat people that are doing their best to help. I've had guns pointed at me for an amount that wouldn't buy dinner, and the guy legitimately owed it. Some people don't want to be happy. They need something to be pissed about.

Chris, you do a good job. I've bought from you and your service was top notch, as well as an excellent price. Try not to let the people that will never be happy affect your outlook on the rest of the folks that appreciate what you do. As Supero pointed out, most of us DMLers do appreciate your excellent level of service.
 

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People are increasingly like this, as E said, it seems to be a sense of entitlement. I personally think that there's something about this board (maybe it happens on other boards too, it doesn't on the other board I mod) that seems to incite people to this kind of behavior with vendors and other people.

I'm sure that most people will probably agree with the sentiment of this thread. If you're one of those people try practicing this in real life. I certainly do. Well, I try my best anyway, no one is perfect. I've become very good friends with the guys from my local shop because they're awesome. That only came about after exercising restraint and understanding when problems came up. They did come up, and early too. I've also purchased from Chris before and think that he was very helpful, not 100% but I don't expect that from anyone. I didn't end up liking what I bought from Chris but so what, that was my choice. He was honest about the product with me and did everything a vendor should.

I honestly think that people dehumanize other people more and more every day. You see it in road rage, you see it in common courtesy (or lack thereof) and you see it on this board. I know it's hard to reign in the desire to flame or bash, I've done it too but that should be the exception, not the rule. We're all talking to other people on the other end of our keyboards and generally you'll find that most people are pretty decent, groups of people are the problem. Try to remember that before you start flaming others, I should say *we* should try to remember that.

I'm totally against restricting people's right to discuss vendors, be they sponsor or no. I don't think that extends to the point of flat out flaming however. In this case, the "don't post if someone would think you were being a jerk" rule applies IMO. Just because it's a vendor doesn't mean people can say whatever the hell they want.
 

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Chris,

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences while running your shop. As someone who has done a lot of jobs that involve being on the receiving end of angry customers, there is nothing more infuriating for me then being treated badly when I'm making a full effort to do my best, or when there's no reason for the customer to be upset. Some people are just looking for ANY possible opportunity to grind into you and that's too bad.

As time has passed, people who are rude, impatient, or just plain angry have grown from the minority to what seems to be a majority sometimes. The problem is compunded even more for you because of your industry, and for whatever reason, it's ability to attract shady people and jerks even more than most industries.

The one thing that allowed me to continue giving 100% to any of my jobs was knowing that at least one person appreciated my effort even if 200 didn't. I've always been impressed and appreciative of people in any job that make efforts above and beyond what is expected from them, and who know their effort won't always be rewarded.

While I have never ordered a part from you, based on the feedback from many on this forum and your own words, I certainly think I will down the road should I ever need to. Good luck, and I hope the growing number of difficult customers won't impact your effort to give your customers the best you can.
 

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There are 2 sides to every story Chris.

Isnt anyone here interested in hearing the other persons side, before taking pitty on all the poor DML 'sponsoring' vendors who are more than willing to make their profits accepting DML members money?

You were never abused mate. simply, the email correspondences were misinterpreted.
And what were the sources of this misunderstanding in the first place? could they have actually been from mistakes made on your part when processing the order and invoicing?

I havent got a problem with that. mistakes happen. thats cool. i make them all the time.
but i actually felt i was being quite patient. and never rude.

If i am mistaken, i appologise sincerely.

I feel for you mate. I am a vendor of goods and services myself. I know what its like dealing with customers who expect you to perform backflips.

I was actually not dis-satisfied with your service Chris.
And I was a little surprised when you went off at me a little in your last couple of emails (my mis-use of capital letters may have been the reason.... for that i appologise again)

I would be willing to post all emails between us for all readers to judge for themselves. However, i feel that might be inappropriate......... as may be this entire thread.

I'm sorry you took this transaction so personally. I dont know you. I've never met you. I simply placed an order via your website.
Being an international buyer, correspondance was limited to emails.... which we all know can be read the wrong way.

Chris, I have only read great feedback on the level of service you provide your customers.

And I am not about to post anything to the contrary.

I did take offence at the title of your post, though mate.
Maybe you've just had a shitty day....... i guess thats ok.
 

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pepsduc said:
There are 2 sides to every story Chris.

Isnt anyone here interested in hearing the other persons side, before taking pitty on all the poor DML 'sponsoring' vendors who are more than willing to make their profits accepting DML members money?
is it that hard to solve an issue w/a vendor offline?

not fingering you... but I have to agree that lately there have been a number of threads where members (newer members... newer than me, even; I haven't been here that long) are WAY too quick to jump all over a sponsor's 'bad business' because of something.

sure, mistakes happen. that's life, eh? can't we all just be cool? [thumbsup]
 

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teddy037 said:
sure, mistakes happen. that's life, eh? can't we all just be cool? [thumbsup]
I'm cool :)

Sorry again Chris this happened.
 

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Supero100 said:
I'm not defending the angry or unreasonably flamethrower customers.

As for why it's all from the DML? ???

The "new" DML has a lot of community members. A lot more people in a population means some will inevitably act like a horse's ass. :-\

You've made a pretty substantial fan base here too, don't forget... [thumbsup]
Right, but the origin of that fan base you quote is libel, inflammatory, and an attempt to discredit 10 years of my hard work. I'm learning (albeit slowly) to understand that the community as a whole supports me, but that kind of crap hurts. You know, I'd rather do my job well without fanfare, get mutual respect from customers, and not have threads like that. I absolutely cannot stand when lies are able to be made a permanent testament to my business. Or when someone can permanently and improperly defame my reputation.

How do I feel? The good of the DML is awesome. But the bad is equally or more powerful. Problem transactions and the stress they cause me is starting to outweigh what good comes from this incredible community. I'm about to hire a new shipping gal... z!na has started training her already. This lady is going to be tasked with handling all post sale monetary support: returns, exchanges, credits, etc. She's smart, in school to be a psycho analyst, and I believe that she will be great. I'm letting you guys know now: if you stress her out and make her quit, I'm probably going to fire the DML. If she can't handle you all, then in my opinion, no one can.

It is up to the general board membership, the moderators, and site admin to help foster a feeling of welcome-ness for vendors here. The DML doesn't have that many sponsors. While talking about this with one of my employees (whose expertise is outside of industry), he said "what are they going to do when you talk to 2 or 3 other sponsors and you all pull out of giving the DML money?"

Am I asking for special favors? No. I'm asking for the same kind of respect everyone would expect in their own workplace. When you're a little late for work, does your customer (your boss) blab on the intercom to the whole company what a slacker and unreliable theiving a$$hole you are? No. Then why do you all get to do that to us? Some of the under-enforced posting rules suggesting respect for DML sponsors is ignored and members are too quick to cry wolf.

What I'm saying is very much the same as what Joe said: many of you are great customers and we love you. Heck, we NEED you to pay the bills that keep our shops running, to pay ourselves so we can pay rent, car payments, and eat food. But... the DML as a whole is telling its vendors that it isn't worth the heartburn anymore. I never thought I would start to feel this way. But anymore, I dread visiting the site out of fear of some new lies being spread about a product on the market that I do or do not sell or falsehoods about a vendor because a customer didn't get stroked just the right way. I don't like the negativity here.

My problem is that I care too much about making people happy. And apparently so does Joe. And looks like European Moto Group is going to question the sense of supporting the DML when they lose money on hard work done to make an awesome fender.

You guys (the members of the DML and industry customers) need to realize that there are not many businessmen who want to sell Ducati stuff. It doesn't make fiscal sense. The market is just too small. Only passion and hard work will keep a vendor in this market for more than 5 years. The profits are crap; less than 30%, which barely covers operational costs.

As has been said... mistakes happen. As vendors, we WANT you guys to be happy, which includes correcting mistakes. But when DML members get "entitled" to us, it's ugly. That customer in the thread saying I'm unethical wanted me to lose $25 because he changed his mind about an order he placed. And then I halved my usual restock fee from $50 down to $25 to cover my actual fiscal expenses from having product delivered to him, then accepting it back. Why did I do this? Because I care about how people are treated and this was as fair as I would expect a business to treat me. Still, I didn't account for: if I ship it back to Cycle Cat and pay a restock fee or covering my expense for absorbing his unwanted order into my inventory. As it is, the product of that thread isn't very popular. Further, the 20 or 30 minutes of labor handling the business transaction is simply chalked up to "cost of doing business." Except for "cost of doing business" is emotionally now considered "cost of supporting the DML."

pepsduc, this thread may not seem fair to you, but your e-mail said the DML brought your business to me. Further:
pepsduc said:
Isnt anyone here interested in hearing the other persons side, before taking pitty on all the poor DML 'sponsoring' vendors who are more than willing to make their profits accepting DML members money?
" Poor DML 'sponsoring' vendors " Man, thanks for the insult. At least it goes to show what I'm blessed to deal with. If I could, I'd gladly undo our business. You really think I'm pouring in money from offering DML Discounts? You got a $286 return on your investment of $25 to become a Ti member!

The transaction we shared is the latest cause to make me evaluate why I allow my company to pay the DML to be a sponsor and then margainlaize my company's income by offering great bargains to DML members. Don't you realize DML Discounts are the same as advertising budgets? When the cost isn't worth the benefits, the marketing campaign is stopped. Business needs to be mutually beneficial, which means that both the customer and the vendor need to be happy about the trade. But I said that in our e-mails and you don't care if our trade benefits me or not.

OK, I'm rambling. I had to go out on a pub crawl to help get over this feeling I have about the family I love but is trying to drive me away: the DML.

;D Chris
 
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I have done a lot of business with you - and will continue to do so - and never had a problem.
But the way you went off on a member over his review and dissatisfaction of a newly installed Yoyodyne master cylinder(which was not even supplied by you!) really left a bad taste in my mouth.
I guess we can all be a little too thin-skinned in our perceptions and a little too insensitive in our dealings with others.
 
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