How you balance, in your mind, the thrill of riding with the omnipresent danger of being mangled by a car in a circumstance beyond your control?

with beer man, with beer


oh and nice T.A.Z.

 

with beer man, with beer
oh and nice T.A.Z.

That has to be te worst F'ing advice I have ever heard..even as a joke Mother!

Cherub..it's all through experience! You have to ride as much as possible. You have to learn that you can't get in blindspots. You can't ride behind someone too closely cuz the person making a left-hand turn can't see you and will pull out in front of you. You have to hit some oil/gravel on the streets to know when to actually slow your azz down. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!

You have to experience nearly getting run off the road several times to become a "true" street rider! The MSF is textbook and you don't leave 2nd gear on the riding course but it DOES give you the basics so DON'T pass it up! SUV's with the driver on the cellphone and 20 screaming kids (I live in Gilbert..this may be different in Boulder). It's INSANE out there!! You learn fast how to sink or swim but even the most experienced riders can be at the right place, unfortunately, at the wrong time. :-\ Get scared and don't lose that feeling but don't let it stop you. It will help you think in the future and react quicker. Keep your head up cuz the everyone else has their head up their azz!

 

I'm too stupid to be scared.

 

I guess that's all the scare I needed to realize how f'ing vulnerable you really are on these things. I know MSF class, blah blah---but what scares me are the situations that are just beyond your control.

Sure wouldn't take much for some yahoo to turn me into a paraplegic.

How you balance, in your mind, the thrill of riding with the omnipresent danger of being mangled by a car in a circumstance beyond your control?

It sounds as though you have not gone through the MSF course. Had you gone through it and took to heart all that you learned, you prolly wouldn't have gotten into the situation you did. It would also give you peace of mind to experience "the thrill of riding with the omnipresent danger of..............".

 

The mindset you need when riding is that everyone is trying to kill you.

 

It was sunny and warm today in Boulder, so after class I took the Duc out on a little ride around town.

Was in some mild traffic at an intersection, in the left lane, and some woman in a Subaru Outback (god I f'ing hate those cars and the salt'n pepper haired Boulder mammas that drive them), in the right lane, nearly cut me off. We were both doing a good 35-40 mph down Broadway in Boulder.

She had to swerve back into her lane to avoid hitting me. I had to slam on the brembos, and the bike wobbled under me a bit. I sure felt like I was going to dump. For whatever reason I didn't. It was terrifying... I was surrounded by cars front and back, to the right side (her), and the incoming traffic (no  median on this portion of Bway.)

Would've been nasty.

I've got a pretty good case of the willies now. I'm a new rider. I'd consider myself pretty responsible, I'm always 100% focused on what's going on. I don't speed (unless there's a hot chick hangin' out at the bus stop..vroom!  > ), or really ride recklessly at all. I'm comfortable on the bike and can ride just fine.

I guess that's all the scare I needed to realize how f'ing vulnerable you really are on these things. I know MSF class, blah blah---but what scares me are the situations that are just beyond your control.

Sure wouldn't take much for some yahoo to turn me into a paraplegic.

How you balance, in your mind, the thrill of riding with the omnipresent danger of being mangled by a car in a circumstance beyond your control?

I have an Outback and a Monster! ;D But im glad to hear that you are ok.

 

Just don't be scared. You did your job on the bike, and I bet it felt like instinct, in which you didn't even flinch in your reactions. When the adrenaline wore off is when you got scared. I've been there; we all have.

Make sure you're in control of your mind and your bike. That's all that matters on the road. You can't change others' thoughts or actions, but as you know now, you can change yours for that split second to save your ass. Good job, now get out there!

 

cherub rock,
Your question of "how you balance, in your mind the thrill of riding with the omnipresent danger of being mangled by a car in a circumstance beyond your control" answers itself - you balance (the risks and the rewards).
As motorcyclists, we constantly face the question from non-riders (or worse, "reformed" riders) of "why" we ride when it's so "dangerous" to do so (I grew up riding in NYC and now ride in downtown Chicago).
Over the years, I always answered, like every activity I pursue, I balance the risks vs. rewards and if it fits into MY risk/reward formula or tolerance, I do it (i.e., motorcycle riding, ice hockey, crossing a crowded city street at rush hour, occasional smoke, etc.).
If it doesn't fit my risk/reward tolerance or formula, I don't do it (i.e., cliff diving, heroine, riding excessively fast on my motorcycle on the streets, etc.).
Of course, everyone has a different risk/reward tolerance, and many personal tolerances aren’t necessarily supported by the "statistics" associated with the activity (I know people who WILL NOT fly on an airplane, though the risk of them being injured/killed on a plane is much less than when driving a car).
And remember, our tolerance levels can change in either direction with age and circumstance.
I have a buddy who rode his whole life, but stopped last year (at age 37!!) because he felt he was "slowing" down reflex-wise and couldn't overcome feeling overwhelmed by the risks.
I have another friend who had a serious accident years ago (broken leg, road rash) and decided that was enough, only dirt biking for him.
Myself, I had a real "soul-searcher" last November, when I was involved in my first accident in 38 years.
An oncoming van suddenly swerved and accelerated into my lane to "cheat" a left turn into an alley and struck me head-on in my lane, right between the headlights (see van picture below); the driver never saw me, as I apparently faded into the Chicago traffic behind me).
I was thrown off the bike, onto the hood, into the windshield, and flipped back over the side of the van to the less than welcoming pavement.
Despite years of experience, there was no way to anticipate the van and there was nothing I could do.
INCREDIBLY, I suffered relatively minor injuries, although my beautiful Duc was totaled (right after $1300 of mods, of course).
My wife, who had "forgotten" the risks of riding over the years of my being accident-free, suddenly was as terrified as the first day she learned I rode.
I also have two 7 year old sons, who sat on the side of the road with their bewildered dad and his mangled Duc waiting for the transport (my wife drove to the scene after I called).
For me personally, I never once thought about not riding again (and I ride in downtown Chicago and rode growing up in NYC, both urban jungles, the most dangerous places to ride).
Of course, I discussed it at length with my wife and kids, who know it is too important a part of me to really stop, although my wife probably wouldn't have minded if I had stopped.
I always told my wife that the only accident I would ever have is one where I am unavoidably hit by another car, and it happened.

“Strokerswild” is right when he says "assume everyone is trying to kill you", as that has always been my approach (or the “1/2 don't see you and the other 1/2 want to kill you”).
Most motorcyclists are injured when they have the “right of way,” which assumes the other driver agrees/cares.
And when you cut the apex of your sweeping turn right up to the yellow line separating you from oncoming traffic, do you really think that painted line on the road will stop the high school kid from running wide in mom’s SUV as s/he looks for the next CD?
So, just as I learned in martial arts, I always try to actively maintain a "buffer" zone between me and any other car/object on the road while at the same time searching for "escape" routes if necessary.
Be safe, be honest with yourself, and I hope you enjoy decades of satisfying riding, as I have.

 

I agree w/ AZMastiff - don't ever let yourself be in anyone's blind spot. Speed up or slow down, but make sure you're never directly next to a car - or worse, between 2 in a 3 lane road.

 

the van . . .

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just wanted to reitterate what others are saying. it can be scary. i remember when i came to that same realization 2 summers ago. (it happened at 80 mph and involved a deer, but the same idea hit me) and unfortunately, i have yet to find a way to practice that emergency braking in a real life situation and not panic without it actually happening.
you have to take that fear and use it to your advantage. there is some wuote about a man without fear is a man who is either an idiot or lying. that applies. you can be fearless for a short time, but that fear will keep youriding smart. those who ignore it are in over their heads and will hurt themselves and others.
above all, remember this for all of life - you can't control everything so learn to control what you can.

ohh yeah, and don't give up! you'll gain more confidence as time goes on and learn how the bike will react to diff things.

 

EVERY time I start warming the bike up and prepping for a ride, regardless of where I'm going or the purpose, I start getting into my alter ego.I sounds silly and maybe I'm going too far with that discription. But , really, I get into a mode wher you start thinking everyone and anything is out against you. I do this becuase there is always at least one moment in every ride that could have gotten you.
That being said, I control I what I can and with my loud pipes control peoples awareness level around me...to a degree.
And if ther on a phone at a light, well I did say had loud pipes right?

 

hey cherub, i know what it is like to ride in boulder....everyone THINKS they are nice safe drivers in their SUV's and disproportinate number of subaru's, but when it comes to it I see at least 10 people every day with their cell phones jabbing away. Safety wise, my only advise is to assume nobody sees you. I always check my rear views when stopping, try to stay over to the side a bit so i can move if need be. When i'm the first or second at a stop light i always check both directions when it turns green because i've almost been hit by a car flying through a red light. When I see someone in a turn lane in the opposite direction i'll flash my brights at them to make sure they see me.... just little things like that will help your chances (nothing can eliminate the risk). By the way, were you by chance riding in Louisville yesterday? I saw a monster dark with what looked like black stratified pipes. Just curious!

 

---but what scares me are the situations that are just beyond your control.

A lot more situations are under your control than you might think. That's why it's valuable to take the MSF Experienced Rider Course and read books like Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough.

I've been riding for a few decades now and have never had anyone almost take me out by changing lanes into me. Why is that? Because I don't ride next to cars. I've had quite a few make sudden lane changes right in front of me, closer than I would like, but because I make it a point to not ride right next to cars it's just a minor annoyance rather than a true danger.

I don't trust any car on the road and I expect them to do the worst possible thing at the worst possible time. Because I keep such a close eye on traffic, it is rare that I'm surprised by a stupid move.

Right now, while you're still concerned about this, is a good time to sign up for the MSF ERC and read some books on rider safety. Go visit www.msgroup.org and read all 180 tips. While some are aimed at the Goldwing crowd, there is a lot of useful information there as well.

There's no reason to ride scared. I wouldn't ride if I felt that way. Just be prepared and you can ride in reasonable safety.

 

almost everytime I ride there is some jackass that is close to hitting me. The traffic lights were out at a very busy intersection this morning. 4 lanes in each direction and no cops directing traffic. Some beyotch in a Miata almost took me out- although I probably would have done more damage to her car than my bike
Just keep your head on a swivel- trust no one. If I am boxed in, I drop it down a gear or two so the morons next to me will definitely hear me. Get your pipes modded too!

 

That has to be te worst F'ing advice I have ever heard..even as a joke Mother!   

Here I am defending myself

Since Cherub has a portion of Chaos quoted just underneath his question, I in return posted the most ignorant reponse i could think of and then commented on the T.A.Z. in hopes the association between the two would bring forth a chuckle.

You see I find that in tense situation a good healthy dose of levity is the best way to relaxe a person before any serious reflection is attempted

 

I agree w/ AZMastiff - don't ever let yourself be in anyone's blind spot.  Speed up or slow down, but make sure you're never directly next to a car - or worse, between 2 in a 3 lane road.

Uhh, isn't the blind spot behind and to the side of a car? I ride there all the time. I know the car driver can't see me, but I can see him and have him running scrimmage for me. He does anything weird, I'm ready for it and have plenty of time. To me, its one of the safest places you can ride in traffic, unless, of course, you are rapidly leaving everyone else behind.

 

Uhh, isn't the blind spot behind and to the side of a car? I ride there all the time. I know the car driver can't see me, but I can see him and have him running scrimmage for me. He does anything weird, I'm ready for it and have plenty of time. To me, its one of the safest places you can ride in traffic, unless, of course, you are rapidly leaving everyone else behind.

Well, maybe "blind spot" is the wrong word for it.  I try to never ride from where the driver is positioned in the car to the back of the car.  For that matter, nor from the driver to the front of the car...if they decide to change lanes suddenly, I assume they won't see me, and unless I can brake quickly they'll take me out.  So, I try to always be a little in front, or behind the car that is next to me so I'm not in the path of a sudden lane change.   I vary my speed to be able to pull through quickly when coming up on a vehicle.

So, after re-reading your quote, I ride in the same place as you - not next to the car.

 

Here I am defending myself

Since Cherub has a portion of Chaos quoted just underneath his question, I in return posted the most ignorant reponse i could think of and then commented on the T.A.Z. in hopes the association between the two would bring forth a chuckle.

You see I find that in tense situation a good healthy dose of levity is the best way to relaxe a person before any serious reflection is attempted

Mother..I was just giving you sh*t! I was laughing when I wrote that.

 

That has to be te worst F'ing advice I have ever heard..even as a joke Mother!   

Cherub..it's all through experience!  You have to ride as much as possible.  You have to learn that you can't get in blindspots.  You can't ride behind someone too closely cuz the person making a left-hand turn can't see you and will pull out in front of you.  You have to hit some oil/gravel on the streets to know when to actually slow your azz down. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!! 

You have to experience nearly getting run off the road several times to become a "true" street rider!  The MSF is textbook and you don't leave 2nd gear on the riding course but it DOES give you the basics so DON'T pass it up!   SUV's with the driver on the cellphone and 20 screaming kids (I live in Gilbert..this may be different in Boulder).  It's INSANE out there!!  You learn fast how to sink or swim but even the most experienced riders can be at the right place, unfortunately, at the wrong time.  :-\  Get scared and don't lose that feeling but don't let it stop you.  It will help you think in the future and react quicker.  Keep your head up cuz the everyone else has their head up their azz!       

Yeah! Horrible advice! Smoking a big bowl of good northwest bud is way better. >

 

Yeah! Horrible advice! Smoking a big bowl of good northwest bud is way better.  >

Careful..he's up there with those "tree huggers" and "curb squirrels" in CO and might take that advice!!

 

Mother..I was just giving you sh*t!  I was laughing when I wrote that. 

Oh.........I'm a dick :-[

 

All good advice here. I ride scared. At 48 years old I do most of my riding on the track. My son is 16 and he is only allowed to ride at the track. It's a lot faster, but a lot safer.

 

cherub rock,
Your question of "how you balance, in your mind the thrill of riding with the omnipresent danger of being mangled by a car in a circumstance beyond your control" answers itself - you balance (the risks and the rewards).
As motorcyclists, we constantly face the question from non-riders (or worse, "reformed" riders) of "why" we ride when it's so "dangerous" to do so (I grew up riding in NYC and now ride in downtown Chicago).
Over the years, I always answered, like every activity I pursue, I balance the risks vs. rewards and if it fits into MY risk/reward formula or tolerance, I do it (i.e., motorcycle riding, ice hockey, crossing a crowded city street at rush hour, occasional smoke, etc.).
If it doesn't fit my risk/reward tolerance or formula, I don't do it (i.e., cliff diving, heroine, riding excessively fast on my motorcycle on the streets, etc.).
Of course, everyone has a different risk/reward tolerance, and many personal tolerances aren’t necessarily supported by the "statistics" associated with the activity (I know people who WILL NOT fly on an airplane, though the risk of them being injured/killed on a plane is much less than when driving a car).
And remember, our tolerance levels can change in either direction with age and circumstance.
I have a buddy who rode his whole life, but stopped last year (at age 37!!) because he felt he was "slowing" down reflex-wise and couldn't overcome feeling overwhelmed by the risks.
I have another friend who had a serious accident years ago (broken leg, road rash) and decided that was enough, only dirt biking for him.
Myself, I had a real "soul-searcher" last November, when I was involved in my first accident in 38 years.
An oncoming van suddenly swerved and accelerated into my lane to "cheat" a left turn into an alley and struck me head-on in my lane, right between the headlights (see van picture below); the driver never saw me, as I apparently faded into the Chicago traffic behind me).
I was thrown off the bike, onto the hood, into the windshield, and flipped back over the side of the van to the less than welcoming pavement.
Despite years of experience, there was no way to anticipate the van and there was nothing I could do.
INCREDIBLY, I suffered relatively minor injuries, although my beautiful Duc was totaled (right after $1300 of mods, of course).
My wife, who had "forgotten" the risks of riding over the years of my being accident-free, suddenly was as terrified as the first day she learned I rode.
I also have two 7 year old sons, who sat on the side of the road with their bewildered dad and his mangled Duc waiting for the transport (my wife drove to the scene after I called).
For me personally, I never once thought about not riding again (and I ride in downtown Chicago and rode growing up in NYC, both urban jungles, the most dangerous places to ride).
Of course, I discussed it at length with my wife and kids, who know it is too important a part of me to really stop, although my wife probably wouldn't have minded if I had stopped.
I always told my wife that the only accident I would ever have is one where I am unavoidably hit by another car, and it happened.

“Strokerswild” is right when he says "assume everyone is trying to kill you", as that has always been my approach (or the “1/2 don't see you and the other 1/2 want to kill you”).
Most motorcyclists are injured when they have the “right of way,” which assumes the other driver agrees/cares.
And when you cut the apex of your sweeping turn right up to the yellow line separating you from oncoming traffic, do you really think that painted line on the road will stop the high school kid from running wide in mom’s SUV as s/he looks for the next CD?
So, just as I learned in martial arts, I always try to actively maintain a "buffer" zone between me and any other car/object on the road while at the same time searching for "escape" routes if necessary.
Be safe, be honest with yourself, and I hope you enjoy decades of satisfying riding, as I have.

did anyone read this whole thing?
I could only get thru the first three lines before noddin' off!

 

almost everytime I ride there is some jackass that is close to hitting me. If I am boxed in, I drop it down a gear or two so the morons next to me will definitely hear me. Get your pipes modded too!

Get this, I am riding home last night and some douche in a big Ford truck is driving in the right lane, I am in the left and slightly ahead. All of a sudden he speeds up and cuts into my lane. I pass him after he swerves back and see that he has one of those kiddie sun shades on the driver side window!!!! I couldnt believe it!