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Discussion Starter #1
HELP!!!!!!!!!!! ???

What is MSF? Keep seeing it mentioned in threads relating to Insurance & a few other things....

Answers on a postcard please........ Thanks in advance

Dave Darkmonster (Still learning the rules here, as they differ from the UK)

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Motorcycle Safety Foundation

www.msf-usa.org (although it seems their site is down).

Basically a national organization that promotes rider safety, provides training and education, and government relations.

Many states on this side of the pond have MSF certified training programs. Attending and passing an MSF course typically allows you to get your MC license or endorsement without having to take the riding portion of the test at the local DMV. It may also result in a slight reduction in insurance premiums.

Not sure if MSF is worldwide
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info. We have something similar, its the Instute of Advanced Motorists, but thats a course taken AFTER you do your test, will look into the MSF site.

Thanks again.

Dave

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I just got back from the class. Let me tell you that it makes for a long weekend. After you take the class there is a great sense of accomplishment. It seems that everyone, no matter how long they have been riding, learns some things from the class and makes them better riders.

I got my wife and friend to take it with me. Makes it much more fun so I would try and get someone to do it with you.

travis
 

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The MSF runs two courses. The Basic course can be taken either before or after you get your license. You need a lerner's permit if you aren't licensed yet. If you pass the test, some states will issue the license without taking the state test.

The also offer an advanced class called the "Experienced Rider Course" or ERC. This is intended for riders with at least a year of riding experience, but nobody really checks. Some people come back to this class for a refresher every couple of years. Probably not a bad idea.

The ERC focuses on more advanced bike control at slightly higher speeds. It's still no track day and they still stick to the very basic riding techniques: always cover the clutch, four finger braking, combined front and rear braking. You won't be getting any throttle-blipping downshifts under two-fingered braking kind of instruction.
 

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It is a long weekend taking that course. I remember taking it out in Concord in the beginning of summer and it was hot as hell. I did the adavance course, but it was cooler in Alameda.
 

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The MSF runs two courses. The Basic course can be taken either before or after you get your license. You need a lerner's permit if you aren't licensed yet. If you pass the test, some states will issue the license without taking the state test.
You don't need a learners permit to take the basic MSF course. It's all done in the classroom and in a big parking lot.

It's often suggested that people take it just to find out what motorcycles and riding are all about. If they like it, then can continue on, if not, at least they should have had fun and learned something new during the two days.
 

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OK, guess it varies by state. In Massachusetts you DO need the permit.

Pay your money, take the "written" test and you're all set.
 

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You don't need a learners permit to take the basic MSF course. It's all done in the classroom and in a big parking lot.
Maybe not everywhere, but you certainly do need the learners permit to take the basic class in New Jersey. They will send you packing if you show up without it... and it was done in a classroom and a big parking lot.
 

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also by taking the MSF, you do not have to take the actual driving portion of the test. Just written.... I know many people opt for that because of that reason.
 

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Well it's not QUITE that simple. You have to pass the MSF riding test at the end of the class. We had a couple of drop-outs and at least two that failed the test.

They were offered the opportunity to come back the next week and take the test with the next class. I'm not sure what the second attempt pass rate is but I know that some people never make it.

So the MSF doesn't get you out of taking a riding test, but they do teach you the skills you're expected to demonstrate before testing you. So it's easier than testing at the DMV from that perspective.
 

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Your right, Don.... I thought that the MSF test was much easier. Although, there are those that think the DMV test is too hard. When you have a big bagger HD it can be a little difficult to do those tight turns ;)
 

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one of the main reasons I took the class was to take the road test on a smaller bike (the one you use during the class for those that don't know).

Some of tight turns in a road test would have been hard on my new s4 and I wasn't gonna screw up the test due to the crap turning radius of the monster.

obviously the benefits of getting some training are another reason for the class.
 

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I hated the DMV road test... The test area at my local DMV doubles as a parking lot and it was slick with oil and scum. I told the guy I wouldn't do it unless he had the lot cleaned up. He told me there was nothing he could do about it so I left. I signed up for the MSF class and had a great time. Our instructor was a really cool guy (29 Palms, CA) He let us beat up on the little Honda cruisers. It was worth the time and money (except for the class time and those horrible videos)
 
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...So the MSF doesn't get you out of taking a riding test, but they do teach you the skills you're expected to demonstrate before testing you. So it's easier than testing at the DMV from that perspective.
Actually, here in Virginia, successful completion of the MSF course does get you out of having to take the riding test at the DMV. I did the MSF course in June and suggest ALL aspiring or current motorcycle riders take it at some point.

Now I just need a bike! ;)

Wes
 

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We're saying the same thing. I meant that MSF doesn't get you out of taking A test, though it does get you out of the DMV test. You take the MSF test instead.

There are standards. It is possible to fail. It's not a gimme'.

I don't beleive the test is easier, but it's percieved as easier, because:

1. They teach the required skills,
2. You get to practice the skills with critique and feedback,
3. You do the test on easy to ride rinky bikes.
 

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In Nevada and New Mexico successful completeion of of the MSF BRC (meaning you pass their written and ridden tests) gets you out of all DMV testing. You just take your certificate of completion to the DMV and get a new license with a 'M' (or 'W' in N.M.) certification. In neither state is a learner's permit needed to take the course.

And what Don said was true... Three people failed the BRC class that I took (one, for the third time). It does seem to be easier than the DMV test, but that's because you've had the chance to practice all of the manuvers under the eyes of the people who will be grading you, so you know what their looking for. It's also not the same 'adversarial relationship' that you seem to have with a DMV tester.

I actually had fun at the MSF classes I've taken. When you think about it, it's just a couple of days of talking about and riding motorcycles, which I'd be doing anyway... The only thing that I didn't like was having to take the BRC on a Buell Blast!

--Fillmore
 

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In California, atleast for me, taking the MSF course after getting my permit, did not remove the requirement for the DMV test in the parking lot thing. It could have been due to my age though. The *day* i turned 15 1/2 i went into DMV and took the written test for my permit, then started riding. The MSF course i had signed up for didnt start for another couple months.

After the MSF course, and the day of my 16th birthday i went down to the DMV office to get my license. The person there made me do the parking lot test.. and after that i got the license.

Granted.. this was in '94 i think.. your mileage may vary.

-mike
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Its funny because I have a full UK bike licence, which will allow me to ride a bike here, as long as I don't own it..... But I also have the DMV 'learners permit' which was issued to me when I took the car drivers test. However, that expires in a year....

Hopefully by then I will have made some sense of all the various tests & permits...and actually have a bike too!

Back home, you have to do whats known at CBT (compulsory basic training) before you are allowed on the street, its a 1 day course taken on 125cc bikes, if you pass, you can then ride a 125 (assuming you are over 17) for up to 3 years, without having to take a test.
If you do take the test & pass, you can ride anything!
Uness you are under 21, in which case you are restricted to 33bhp (most 400cc bikes).

If you pass the sub 400cc test and wait 2 years, you automatically get upgraded to an unrestricted one after 2 years.
But if you are under 21 and become over 21, you have to take the full test to upgrade!

:eek:

Confused? I still am!

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