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Discussion Starter #1
Just got finished today with installation of the Termignoni full system and some rearsets. Celebrated by, uhhhhh, riding it to work. At least it's something.

I'm using an '01 computer 'cause that's what came with the system. I'll probably go back to the '02 DP 'puter for the half system when I do the Power Commander and dynotune so the right fan will work and the bike will run on the sidestand. But, the '01 'puter for the full system gives an extra 500 RPM (redline will be at 10,500). Probably won't be an issue since I hardly use more than 9500 anyway. I'll have to see what the dyno says and make the final decision then. Hopefully I can get a Commander and get it tuned in the next couple of weeks; I'm hoping for 110-112 at the rear wheel. Second gear power wheelies? I'll try and figure out a way to post the dyno map.

Initial impression is that there's some more pull everywhere! Hard to say since I haven't ridden the bike in a few weeks. I'd think that a bigger exhaust system diameter and tuned collector would help breathing on top more than anything, but maybe not. I do know that the fuel injection map in the new 'puter is way better than what came with the '02 half system 'puter, so maybe that's making the most difference right now. It's especially noticeable on the bottom, where it pulls much cleaner than before. Throttle response seems better too. I like it!

And for the 'coup de grace' I might pick up an Evoluzione clutch when Uncle Sam sees fit to send me my tax return. I think I'll take the nifty 48 tooth unit and put on a vented clutch cover so I can look at it and ponder just why I feel the need to spend a grand on a clutch.

Say, anyone got a set of magnesium wheels they'd like to sell for a good price? Just kidding!!!!
I think.......
 

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Chad,

I think you'd get a lot more enjoyment out of the mag wheels.
Granted, brand new they're more than twice the cake, but everybody who has 'em nearly froths at the mouth about how much better the bike feels with 'em.

Just my opinion spending your money. ;D
 

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Congrads on the new exhaust. You should be fine with the 02 slip-on ECU. The full system ECU has the same rev limit as slip-on ECU: 10,000 rpm. I can't imagine the map being all that much different between the two, as they both use an open airbox. Either way, they both are too lean. The PCIII, will, of course, fix that.

It's the "Corse" ECU (cams) that goes to 10,500.



S4 DP ECU Part Numbers:

2001 ONLY

CENTRALINA KIT PLUS (slip-ons + open airbox)
96506100B

CENTRALINA KIT POWER (full system + open airbox)
96506200B

CENTRALINA KIT CORSE (cams + full system + open airbox)
96506300B.

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2002 +

CENTRALINA KIT PLUS S4/02 (slip-ons + open airbox)
96508702B

CENTRALINA KIT POWER S4/02 (full system + open airbox)
96508802B

CENTRALINA KIT CORSE S4/02 (cams + full system + open airbox)
96508902B
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the advice fellas.

I am aware of the computer snafu. The DP system I bought with my bike came with an '01 ECU which I warrantied for the correct ECU. The full system I bought from a buddy was for an '01 bike, so I got an '01 ECU for that system.

The only reason I was thinking about keeping the '01 ECU was for, I thought, an extra 500 revs. Guess I'll bin it now that I know it won't give me that- after I test it to make sure. ;D
I REALLY like the map in the '01 ECU though. The bike runs much better everywhere. I'll have to ride it this weekend and make sure about it all, but I think I could be happy with what it's doing right now. Bypassing the sidestand cutout is easy, and that right fan really isn't much of an issue. Saving $550 for the PCIII/dynotune and putting that in a new helmet sounds like a plan.

The STM clutch I'm buying because I think it's almost a necessary upgrade. The stock clutch basket is beat to crap from commuting. You can feel it when it's engaging; it's like a gravelly feel when the plates slide over the notches in the basket. Plus the extra clearance causes it to wear out the tabs on new plates very quickly. The 48-tooth STM is supposed to last forever and be much quieter also (not that I mind the noise). Plus, it's a few pounds lighter! Vroom, vroom!!!

As for mag wheels, yes, I lust after a set. They'll just have to come later.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, I went to O-side today and spent a great chunk of my tax return on some nifty items for the Monster. They didn't have an STM clutch there so I had to order one. Hopefully it's in my greedy little hand in a couple of weeks. Thought since I was getting a cool looking clutch I might like to see it sometimes so I bought a carbon half-cover. AND since I was buying a new chain and sprocket I picked up the carbon front sprocket cover; Heck, why not?

BTW, my sprocket wasn't there, but there was one on the shelf for Rideon. I called him up and he let me have his sprocket. Gosh, what a swell guy. I'll have to ask him to be my Valentine :-*

Gonna flog the sucker some tomorrow and figure out if I want to do the PCIII and dynotune. Probably will anyway as long as the money holds out. ::)
 

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Nick, educate me. Besides the cosmetic, what makes 'em so great?
You're basically lightening up two big gyroscopes on your bike, which means you aren't fighting as hard against the tendency for a gyroscope to spin on the same plane when you're tipping your bike into a corner.

Also, the wheels have less inertia, so they aren't fighting against acceleration or braking inputs as much.

I think I have about 3 stock parts left on my bike at this point, and magnesium wheels had the most profound and instantaeous effect on improving the ride.

--Fillmore
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ditto on the mag wheels Rev. I've ridden a bike with a set and it is a huge difference. All inputs to the bike through brake, throttle, and bars will happen faster; the difference is not subtle. Another benefit is the reduction in sprung weight which means the suspension doesn't have to work as hard to keep things under control, thus better suspension control, better ride, and better handling. Oh, and it'll be even more wheelie prone [smiley=evil.gif]. I'll have to look into getting a set sometime in the future.

I was talking to Rideon yesterday and he mentioned that Infoage1 recommended against the lightened flywheel (I have the Nichols) and the lightweight clutch together. If you read this, could you give me some input on that? My major question is 'Does it further effect the tendency of the bike to not want to idle when cold'? That would be bothersome. I've been told that a light clutch doesn't affect idle and vibration like a light flywheel. I am aware of the issues of throttle response with both and I'll have to evaluate that on my own. I can't imagine anything more responsive than my Husqvarna, and it's like having your wrist connected to the crankshaft! That really doesn't bother me. Is it touchier off idle? That might be bothersome. And you were right, it needs a new fuel map so that's in the works too.
 

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I was talking to Rideon yesterday and he mentioned that Infoage1 recommended against the lightened flywheel (I have the Nichols) and the lightweight clutch together. If you read this, could you give me some input on that? My major question is 'Does it further effect the tendency of the bike to not want to idle when cold'?
Ya know, I'm not sure yet... I've got two bikes in the garage with light clutches, and one with a nichols flywheel, but the OEM clutch. What I can say is that the light clutch doesn't have nearly effect on throttle response as the nichols flywheel.

When I think about it, it wouldn't seem like the light clutch would have that much effect on idle because it would seem that it's one of the things counteracting against the flywheel (it's adding friction to the system, right?). A light flywheel might even help the bike idle? No FHE here, just hypothesizing... Fell free to jump in anyone...

However, I am about to put a MotoWheels slipper clutch in my Supersport as well as a Nichols flywheel. The MotoWheels slipper is supposed to be about 6 lbs lighter than OEM, so it'll be a test. (I'll probably lighten the crank eventually as well, so we'll see...)

--Fillmore
 

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My major question is 'Does it further effect the tendency of the bike to not want to idle when cold'?
To answer your "major question" first: No, I do not believe it further reduces the cold idling. The clutch does not rotate at the same speed as the flywheel (1:2 I think), so the gyro effect is materially less.

And, it's not that I really "recommended against the lightened flywheel and the lightweight clutch together", it's more that one has to be, as always, comfortable with the compromise. I was not.

Starting point: When I got my bike, it shipped with an alloy 39 tooth sprocket in the "Foggy" kit (OEM is 37). Ok, this is cool with the engine as shipped: Quicker off-the-line, more responsive, etc.

But, as I continued to reduce rotating mass (Nichols fw, alloy slipper, mags, alloy pulleys, 520 chain, etc), the "Quicker off-the-line, more responsive, etc.", turned into a decidedly "nervous in lower gears", more abrupt, posture. And, as the original clutch basket/plates wore, the bike developed a certain "snatchyness" in the lower gears, as well. All of which combined to make me consider swapping back in the heavy, OEM, flywheel to increase the low speed, low gear, drivability and manners. This is a street bike, after all.

That said, with the new Surflex slipper, the annoying "snatchyness" is gone. What I've done to address the "nervous in lower gears" posture, is to go down to a 38 tooth rear sprocket; I think I'll eventfully go down to a 37 tooth. The Surflex slipper has a very soft engagement, so getting "off-the-line" is that much easier.

As far as the map: While talking to the new tech at Spectrum at their open house, he mentioned how he sometimes would tweak the FI maps for race bikes to soften the edge in the lower RPM/greater throttle position cells, such as might help a racer accelerating out of a corner. Essentially "detune" it a little for increased drivability. An interesting, related, idea I might try.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Deadpan and Infoage, thanks a lot for the quick response and good info.

That's good news about the cold idle not deteriorating with the light clutch. It's bad enough right now with the flywheel; hopefully that condition will improve with the PCIII and a dynotune.

Deadpan, the light flywheel does affect how the bike runs when cold, and to some extent when it's hot too. I usually have to give it a little throttle cranking it when hot to get it ticking over above idle, then it'll settle in. There's simply not the same rotating mass there to keep it going as well.

I ran into the same thing as Infoage with the stock clutch. As it wore it became a cantankerous beast, and the light flywheel only makes it worse. When you're coming off the line the clutch has to deal with the inertia, getting the bike going, that the stock flywheel used to provide. Once the clutch is fully engaged then it's smooth sailing. IMO this causes the stock clutches to wear out faster. I went with the STM 48 tooth clutch because I've heard from several good sources that they last MUCH longer than the stock clutch.

I might look into getting the cams dialed before I dynotune. Not sure how much more that would get me, but it can't hurt. Infoage was right about the map in the ECU; it seems to be lean, although the bike pulls and runs better than before. The place it's going to be tuned at (Lee's Cycles) has a great reputation and do slews of race bikes, mostly japanese. Several are racers themselves. One of the techs worked at a Duc shop for awhile, so he knows his way around a 916 mill. They talk a lot about making the bike "more rideable" along with making more power, so that's definitely the path to go down.

That's interesting about tuning the map for less hit in lower rpm's with lots of throttle. Considering what I'm doing right now I'd need a bit more power than I'm gonna get to worry too much about spinning it up exiting corners. I did it on my buddy's GSX-R but that was with stock gearing so I had to use first gear in the slower corners. It was fun though-come out and dial in wheelspin with the right wrist! I've been told that I sometimes leave a faint black mark coming out of corners, but it has never spun up on me. The Duc seems to just dig in and propel forward; God bless the v-twin. Anyway, I'm hoping for about 110-112 rwhp.

So basically I'm going ahead as planned. If it ends up being too touchy I'll think about installing the stock 'wheel, but I hope that's not the case.
 

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Deadpan, the light flywheel does affect how the bike runs when cold, and to some extent when it's hot too. I usually have to give it a little throttle cranking it when hot to get it ticking over above idle, then it'll settle in. There's simply not the same rotating mass there to keep it going as well.
No doubt... I actually meant to say that there was a possibillity that the light clutch might help the idle...

I was probably too excited to think clearly. It broke 40 deg today and I got to take a short spin on the SS today (I would have taken the Monster, but it's in Las Vegas right now)

I don't really have the same concerns as Infoage about the effects that the light clutch and flywheel may have on streetabillity, because I'm building the SS primarily as a track bike.

The cool thing with the FCR carbs and Dyna coils on my Monster is that even with the Nichols flywheel, my bike idles better now than it did when it was stock. (Now I just need FCRs for the SS...)

--Fillmore
 
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