[niuginisbk]

I have an interesting Fuel Related Question that hopefully someone can answer.

I know there has been plenty of talk re, Octane Ratings Ect & some members have refered others to Older Strings that have also been discussed recently.

I have read through all these & can't see the solution to the particular problem I am faced with in the country I live.

My problem is we don't have any Choice, we only Have Std. Unleaded & Diesel available at the pumps. The St. Unleaded is supposidly rated at 83. But a lot of the automotive repair shops reckon that it's more like 78-80. Certainly my 95 900 Monster runs like crap on the gas out of the Bouser.

Papua New Guinea is where i live. I have the only Monster in the Country, & there is no such thing as a bike shop, we're on our own!

I can get hold of Avgas from the local airport but have heard it will eat away carburettor bowl linings & give you more trouble that you can handle if you run it 100% on Avgas.

My question is. Can i mix the Std Unleaded with Avgas to get an octane rating of around the Magic 95 Mark. If so what percentage 75/25, 80/20 ect.....??

At the moment I use about 100mls of Octane Boost per tank fill & that seems to work well. However, even the octane boost I have to bring in by Ship from Australia.

I would much rather use the Avgas Blending method as at least it's available in Papua New Guinea & I don't have to forward plan my shipping Consignments to get a ride on the Duc.

Would love to hear from some of you tecko minded guys??

 

[Speeddog]

Can you tell us the brand or manufacturer of the AvGas, and what octane it is?

We may be able to get some info to help you out.

Is your Monster modified at all? How many miles/km are on it?

 

[arecarless]

In general, octane is not linear- mixing 50% of 100 with 50% of 83 does not produce 91.5. The final blend could be lower, or it might be higher. Octane boosters can enhance or defeat each other, and some are used in tiny, tiny concentrations. We'd have to know what's in the Avgas and the pump gas to say more.

I'd guess that the octane booster in Avgas is lead; that's what is in US Avgas. If so, lead is somewhat linear; adding some will produce some improvement, though I can't say how much. The bigger problem is lead deposits- Avgas will definitely void your warranty, though it sounds like that is not much of a threat to you. Long-term, a buildup of lead can't be good, but what do I know, I'm too young to remember leaded gas.

If your 100mL octane booster is what I think it is- aromatics and other reactive hydrocarbons- then it shouldn't compete with lead. At least, not in reasonable concentrations.

As a last resort, you could look into water injection systems. You'd have to mount a bottle of distilled water somewhere, but you can't beat the price...
Rene Carlos

 

[test-reg]

may seem to be a dumb question, but what do people do for cars? since you have unleaded, i assume you have some newer cars there. i suppose you could order cases of octane booster or run a mix of avgas and call the future repairs maintenance. i will try and do some research for you. meantime, i would worry more about ping than fuel system damage.

 

[niuginisbk]

Speeddog/carlos, i have requested the tech. specs from Mobil, hope to have them by tomorrow. Will put them up for you to see.

Howie, I know it seems strange, but as i said we don't have many options here. Although the only pump gas available is unleaded, i have not seen one car with the unleaded type restricted filler tube. Most of the new cars here come in from the japaneese market, not out of Australia. I think they just swapped over to un-leadded a couple of years ago. I'm not sure what the Vehicle Manufacturers intentions are with regards to what's meant to go in them. Definately food for thaught, i'll ask a few questions.

 

[TedR]

If the Avgas is produced by a reputable company I doubt that you would have problems with it in your fuel system. Do you know what type of Avgas it is? Probably the most available here in the US is 100LL (100 octane Low Lead), it has about 2 grams of lead per gallon.

You have to remember that the FAA (in the US) has strict controls on these things for the safety of the flying public. Gas is often left to sit in small aircraft for extended periods of time and it is expected to not do damage and be ready to fly at some unknown time in the future.

If the Avgas is labeled as 100LL and blue in color it is probably the same or similar to US standards.

If the Avgas is labeled 80/87 and is red in color, stay away from it, it is only about 80 octane.

If the Avgas is labeled 100/130 and is green in color it has about 4 grams of lead per gallon but should otherwise be similar to the 100LL. The 100/130 is in general being replaced by 100LL

Anyway, do your homework first and make sure you know what you are getting.

 

[test-reg]

niuginimonster, i spent some time doing research and about all i came up with is the use of gasoline as a bomb there in WWII! i haven't given up yet, though. i also want to see the Mobil specs. have no fear, i'm sure this board will find a solution to your problem. i wonder if you should contact Ducati? maybe they have a cure.

 

[niuginisbk]

Ted,

 

[niuginisbk]

Ted, Don't know what happened there, Must have pressed the wrong button.

thanks for the info. I'm still waiting for the spec's from Mobil, hoping to have today.

From what you have said i'm fairly certain it's the 100/130 we get here, not sure of the colour yet. But it's described as 100 octane & 130ron.

Please keep an eye out for the reply when i get the spec's, i really want to sort this out & run the right mix.

Howie, thanks mate, keep looking!

Back to you guys soon.

 

[test-reg]

BP PNG Head Office
Contact: Hulala Tokome
PO Box 569
Lae
Papua New Guinea
+675 473 77 00
E-mail: [email protected]


BP PNG Port Moresby Marketing Office
Contact: Leonie Bannon
PO Box 597
Port Moresby
Papua New Guinea
Tel: +675 321 70 40
E-mail: [email protected]

hope this can help

 

[spaceman]

you might be the only monster owner but i am sure there has to be one other BMW or some high end bike over there that has the same problem.. A good idea might be to try to get in touch with them.

-Spaceman.

 

[Finger]

Changing threads on me eh Spaceman?

anyway.. thanks for caring but I do ride with a bunch of guys with different bikes.. (VFR-800, YZF-R6. Magna.. etc) just no Monsters.

 

[spaceman]

Changing threads on me eh Spaceman?

Din't get you there
-Spaceman

 

[niuginisbk]

Guys,
it appears that Mobil PNG don't have &/or Wont give me a technical Data Sheet for Pump Gas & Avgas.

I went as far as could through the Techo guys here In PNG & finally got refed to the "so Called" Guru in Australia.

I rang him & Explained my situation. The first thing he said is that the Avgas we get up here is 100/130 Green in Colour. He said it is illegal to run avgas in a street bike in Australia only because of the lead content & the new global emmission laws. (of no concern in PNG)

he also said that the Standard Unleaded pump gas is 91 Octane (not 83) he said this is a global standard.

He said if I run 50% Pump Gas with 50% Avgas I will have an octane rating of 96-98%. He also said I would need Hotter Plugs to prevent Fouling.

My Concerns to him (that he could not answer) Were :
1) What Plug to run? (I can probably get that from Ducati in Australia)
2) I had heard that too much avgas can corrode the lining off the inside of the Carburetor bowls. He denied this & said there is nothing corrosive in Avgas.
3) I suggested that the timing also would need to be advanced slightly. He said probably, but didn't know by how much?

Any of you guys race your Duke's on week end's or professionally?

What part # Plug is Suitable & is it hotter that Std?

I can actually Buy Avgas here cheaper than the Pump Gas so I'm thinking i might run 100% avgas. Has anyone done this? Is there any detrimental effects?

With regards to the timing? Mine is a 95 900M Carburetted & being my first Bike apart from an 80cc two smoker some 20years ago I haven't had experience with timing a Duke!

I guess it's controlled by the Black Box??????

What do you reckon?

 

[niuginisbk]

Spaceman,
I'm actually doing all this reasearch on behalf of my other fellow Bikers, of which there are no more than 10 in the country (that we know of). Sure there are AG Bikes in the plantations, but not street driven, only work horses.

The guy with a K75 BMW doesen't seem to have the same problem, but I guess the BM's "Computer everything" & the engine management system probaly caters for it.

The other guy on the GPZ900 has similar problems.

The ballance of the 10 are Royal Enfield 500 Bullets out of India & few "Startermotors" (our name for schooters), & it seems the'll run on anything.

So the reasearch will not only benifit me.

 

[test-reg]

from what i read, race fuel might be hard on fuel system components over time. oxegenates are added to increase power and since it's race fuel, long time durability is a low priority. since we don't want aircraft falling out of the sky, avgas shouldn't be a problem sounds like your problem is solved. congratulations!
i would leave the timing at factory specs. as far as timing goes, if no one messed with it, it should be fine. as long as you don't advance the timing, the plugs should be fine. if you want to check it, the window on the alternator cover is where you do it. as i have a 750, i don't have the specs for a 900. since you are a monster club of one there, might i suggest you purchase both the factory and the Haynes shop manuals for your bike.
in what country did your monster origionally reside?

 

[TedR]

If you are going to run 100% Avgas I would recommend you make sure the jetting is correct. Avgas in general has a lower density than standard pump gas so your jet size may need to be increased.

 

[niuginisbk]

Howie,
Thanks for your thaughts. I seem to be getting simmilar advise re long term use. The Mobil "Experts" seem to say "no detremental Effect" but the general concensus is the opposite.

They said a 50/50 mix will give me 97/98 octane so I'll start with 75/25 & see how that goes. Ted, I think I'll get the Ducati Course jet's ect just to be safe, maybe it will give me a bit more punch as well.

I just received a Copy of the Ducati Workshop Manual from Australia. What is a "Haynes" Manual?

I bought the Bike in Melbourne Australia & rode it to Brisbane, then flew it up to PNG.

Thanks for all your assistance Guys.

 

[vt_monster]

91 octane should be fine for your bike, though you may need hotter plugs. I use 89 here in the states and have nad no problems what so ever. Of course, I fall on the side of the argumentt that believes octane ratings and spiraling gas prices are a bunch of **** and there is really no significant difference between the fuels. Try NGK plugs, the DPR8EA model.

 

[Speeddog]

Niugini,

Have you tried a tank of 75/25 brew yet?