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Discussion Starter #1
I'm trying to get some input on some Questions surrounding Frame Sliders. I've been hunting the Net for some inexpensive frame sliders for my S4. I noticed that all (ones that I have found) frame sliders come with a kit that includes a replacement longer thru bolt/rod. Is that absolutely necessary ?. I looked at other kits for other makes and they have cheaper kits that bolt on w/o replacement of the thru bolt. Why do the Duc kits have the replacement thru bolt? Can anyone chime in and explain this?. If it's the question of the strength of the factory thru bolt, why would Ducati install this at the factory if it was inferior in the strength department ? Most bikes don't rely on the engine and surrounding bolts to be incorporated in the design of the frame like the Ducs , so I'm thinking the bolt is stronger than most. What I'm trying to find out is, can we bolt on a frame slider directly to our engine thru bolt? What is the pro's and cons if any? My friend owns a company that makes injection molds and other things and has a vast selection of goodies to make just about anything. His foreman put together a frame slider for me (after a lot of measuring and remeasuring) that bolts directly to the front engine thru bolt. I just took out the existing nut and installed a titanium washer and threaded on my new frame slider. The only thing right now is that I can't use a typical torque wrench to tighten the slider (as of yet). Right now, I have to use old school tightening methods ( just plain threadlocker and tighten 'til snug) [laugh]. Is there any cons to this?. All I wanted was something there to protect my frame and especially my clutch in case I go down, or just plain drop the bike. Right now I just have the prototype so I know what it will look like and fit. So far after all the materials and labor, my sliders are going to cost me approx $55.00. I think that's cheap insurance! what other mod can you buy for 55.00 ?. There was a lot of measuring, welding, and grinding going on for such a small part !. Just finding a tap to thread the steel shaft itself was a chore. I'm very pleased for all the work he has put in for me. Later he is going to make a production piece for me that looks better than the test piece. Can't wait. All the parts he has is chrome which sucks for me, but I'm thinking of sending the finished product out for powder coating. Right now I used black cloth tape similiar to handlebar tape. I attached some pics and I like some input good or bad. Thanks in advance for your inputs [thumbsup]
 

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http://www.axljak.com/duc_sliders_1.htm

this link provides a very good explanation as to why on the bolt issue among other things and some pictures to demonstrate what he is talking about....also FWIW....alot of sliders...at least good ones are made with Delrin for a reason.......it is hardened enough to take the smack of a fall over...but will still gring in a sliding situation and yet still snap off if needed in violent scenarios....I think there is a pretty good explanation that delves deeper on CycleCat's website on that issue alone.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
thanks zoom, I never found that site. that would've answered a lot of my questions. that's why I love the DML !. someone always has the answers. So ya think I wasted my friend's time?
 

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If I understand correctly, you relpaced the nut with this slider. What about the other side? You will still need a stud, so you can thread a slider on.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
silentbob said:
If I understand correctly, you relpaced the nut with this slider. What about the other side? You will still need a stud, so you can thread a slider on.
you know bob, this is going to sound stupid, but I thought that it was a threaded rod all the way thru. [laugh]. I haven't worked on that side yet as I was concerned about the clutch getting damaged on the right side. The other side was going to be put on just for asthetics. So what you're telling me is that that rod is actually a long bolt?
 

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MichMonsterS4 said:
you know bob, this is going to sound stupid, but I thought that it was a threaded rod all the way thru. [laugh]. I haven't worked on that side yet as I was concerned about the clutch getting damaged on the right side. The other side was going to be put on just for asthetics. So what you're telling me is that that rod is actually a long bolt?
Yup.
 

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If you decide to go through w/ getting the through-engine-bolted sliders, R&G racing has some fantastic sliders, and some more good info as to the benefits of a through engine kit.... they're a few bucks cheaper than the CC's and Speedymoto's too, (at about 60 pounds/ 118 bucks). They don't "stick out" nearly as much as the CC's either, but that's defo a personal pref thing.
 

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silentbob said:
And if one of your sliders falls off for some reason on the 15 northbound to RB, that entire bolt which holds the engine mount will vibrate loose and nearly fully pull out just as you pull into the parking lot at work. ;D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
meccanica said:
And if one of your sliders falls off for some reason on the 15 northbound to RB, that entire bolt which holds the engine mount will vibrate loose and nearly fully pull out just as you pull into the parking lot at work. ;D
Let me guess..." It happened to your Friend right !? [laugh] [laugh]
 

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so the consensus says bad idea. Unless I just park it and put it on just for looks, don't use them?
there I go......I could call them PARKING PEGS ... [laugh] [laugh]
 

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MichMonsterS4 said:
so the consensus says bad idea. Unless I just park it and put it on just for looks, don't use them?
there I go......I could call them PARKING PEGS ... [laugh] [laugh]
No, I wouldn't say that. My Cycle Cat sliders saved my bike from more extensive damage during a low side. The nuts on the Cycle Cat are designed to break away if the force is high enough. After my crash they didn't break away but they were bent enough that they were no longer tight. 50 miles later one of the sliders fell off and the entire stud holding the engine to the frame backed out 2/3 of the way. I pulled into the parking lot at work and noticed it sticking out.

Now as far as the slider you created, I see two problems. One, you can't put one on both sides. Two, the bolt does not have very many exposed threads to mount the slider. If you want to make your own, you can simply make a second slider piece and replace the bolt with a longer stud.
 

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MichMonsterS4 said:
So ya think I wasted my friend's time?
Oh heck yes.
Furthermore, you should remove the slider immediately, and put the nut back on. If you drop it right now, it will break off instantly. You have very few threads that are going into plastic right now. When it breaks off, the engine bolt will be free to fall out.

No offense...seriously, I'm just going to tell you straight up here. You should not attempt this mod yourself if you do not have the knowledge to do so. The frameslider kits are made correctly and alot of time and R&D was put into these kits. They are made so that if the slider breaks away, there is still a fully functional engine bolt still in tact. This is very important. If you wanted to make a proper kit yourself, you would have to source the materials, (good plastic, metric drill rod, material for slider mount to adapt to through bolt, harware, etc.), and you would then have to get your parts machined by someone. By the time you finish all that, you could have purchased several sets of aftermarket sliders for the same price.
There are other sliders that are not as critical to get right that you could make yourself. Bar-end sliders, front axle sliders, and swingarm spools that also act as sliders depending on how they are made. If you have a friend who really wants to make parts for you, have him make these. They are not as critical to the basic structure of your bike to get right. The frameslider is. [thumbsup]
 

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Whoops, just went back and read your post. You are using steel not plastic because you said it was chromed. Doesn't matter much...take it off. It will probably still break off easily.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
silentbob said:
Now as far as the slider you created, I see two problems. One, you can't put one on both sides. Two, the bolt does not have very many exposed threads to mount the slider. If you want to make your own, you can simply make a second slider piece and replace the bolt with a longer stud.

I did back out the engine bolt ( after supporting engine of course) and tacked a bolt to the existing head (so the bolts were head to head) and screwed on a slider to the left side also.) that sucks thinking you found a cheap solution and finding out otherwise ..it looks good though
 
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