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Curly said:
In one of the motorcycle magazines, someone asked the tech guy about Buell's zero torsional load brakes and why more manufacturers didn't use them. I believe it came down to that while one disk on a Buell maybe lighter, two would be heavier than than a regular two disk setup.
very interesting, so it would support my comment about it being partly a weight saving scheme...
 

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adamsduc said:
i can't see a steel crankcase engine being the same weight as an aluminum one.
Huh???

That basic engine has been all-alloy (externally) since the mid-1980s. It isn't all that hefty. And they are dirt cheap to tweak due to the huge aftermarket.

I rode an XB12 a while back and thought it was great (oh baby, that torque). Handled as good or better than my M900. My only gripes were no 6th gear and limited (sub-7000 RPM) powerband. The last gripe is readily handled by the aforementioned aftermarket. ;)
 

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Speedbag said:
Huh???

That basic engine has been all-alloy (externally) since the mid-1980s. It isn't all that hefty. And they are dirt cheap to tweak due to the huge aftermarket.

I rode an XB12 a while back and thought it was great (oh baby, that torque). Handled as good or better than my M900. My only gripes were no 6th gear and limited (sub-7000 RPM) powerband. The last gripe is readily handled by the aforementioned aftermarket. ;)
well, there you go. the last HD I worked on was a '62 FL..

but i think if you put the HD components on a scale vs the Ducati components, you'd see a lot of weight shaving done by HD in the brakes and exhaust. it is a heavier bike, part for part. they just did a lot of work to get it in the same ball park. using a single front caliper saved them about 2 lbs, single rotor another few lbs, and so on.
 

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Interesting comments from the group on this....I own both brands, but I've been riding for 37 years and I'm not a yuppie. I think Ducati could learn a lot about how to properly sell after market stuff for there bikes from Harley. The fact that it is so damn hard to get the accessories I want for my Duc makes me scream some times. If it is between a merger or Ducati going out of biz, I say merger is good.
 

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Vindingo said:
It does make sense, Harley is loaded, Ducati is small time... BUT this will only make our bikes EVEN MORE trendy then they already are. Think of all the ducati t-shirts and headbands to be sold. I bet this pisses off Harley owners more than it would piss off Duc owners
Not this Harley owner.
 

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chopperbill said:
Interesting comments from the group on this....I own both brands, but I've been riding for 37 years and I'm not a yuppie. I think Ducati could learn a lot about how to properly sell after market stuff for there bikes from Harley. The fact that it is so damn hard to get the accessories I want for my Duc makes me scream some times. If it is between a merger or Ducati going out of biz, I say merger is good.
from the harley ppl i've talked to, most think it would be pretty cool.

both crowds have their "mystique", almost unlike any other bike brand. (hondas and yammy's don't have this kind of following.... user groups and clubs, but no hero worship.. who's been to the honda motorcycle factory? big whoop...)

the only thing both groups want is for their bike to stay the basic way it is .. Ducati's should be Italian made in Bologna (by union labor) and Harleys should be American made in Wisconsin (by union labor)..
 

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adamsduc said:
Ummm.. that's what we call "incorrect" around here:

Buell sold 3800 bikes WORLDWIDE in 2006, according to their stock report:
Page 9 from the Harley Davidson annual report: http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/fetchFilingFrameset.aspx?dcn=0001104659-07-014465&Type=HTML

Ducati sold over 8000 bikes in 2006, just in North America (about 4/5th of that in the USA alone), approximately 38,000 world wide.
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=27911
I'll stand by my contention that "Buell does sell almost the exact same number of bikes in the U.S. each year as Ducati does." If you'll look at Harley-Davidson's 2006 annual report[1], you'll see that Buell shipped 12,460 units in 2006, of which 10,858 were over 651cc. Buell doesn't have its sales broken out by U.S. versus international units, but if you apply the same percentage as that of Harley-Davidson for 2006 (apx 78% sold in the U.S. and 22% sold in other markets) you'd find that Buell sold about 9,700 total units in the U.S., and even if you further eliminate the 500cc single cylinder Blast from those sales figures, you'd get 8,495 Buells with v-twin motors sold in the U.S.

Pretty damn close to the 8,200 Ducatis sold in North America in 2006.

[1] http://investor.harley-davidson.com/shipments/shipments.cfm?
 

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Old_Ducker said:
I'll stand by my contention that "Buell does sell almost the exact same number of bikes in the U.S. each year as Ducati does." If you'll look at Harley-Davidson's 2006 annual report[1], you'll see that Buell shipped 12,460 units in 2006, of which 10,858 were over 651cc. Buell doesn't have its sales broken out by U.S. versus international units, but if you apply the same percentage as that of Harley-Davidson for 2006 (apx 78% sold in the U.S. and 22% sold in other markets) you'd find that Buell sold about 9,700 total units in the U.S., and even if you further eliminate the 500cc single cylinder Blast from those sales figures, you'd get 8,495 Buells with v-twin motors sold in the U.S.

Pretty damn close to the 8,200 Ducatis sold in North America in 2006.

[1] http://investor.harley-davidson.com/shipments/shipments.cfm?
I am sorry, but you are misreading the information. Harley/Buell DOES break it down into regions in the publicly-filed SEC form 10-K documents below[1]. The link you posted is not Harley's annual report, it is a company-wide summary. The 10-K that I posted, which is filed with the SEC is the official annual report and has the sales breakdown by region.

Also, this thread has been about bikes that Buell makes that compete with Ducatis. The Blast does not compete with anything Ducati makes. It appeals to a totally different market. None of Ducatis bikes are <651 cc now or single cylinder.

on page 9: of the actual annual report:
[1] http://www.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/Downloads/Annual_Reports/2006/HD_AR_2006_10-K.pdf

Chart name: U.S. Heavyweight Motorcycle Registration Data

Buell shipped 3,800 units in the USA in 2006.

On page 10
Chart name: European Heavyweight Motorcycle Registration Data

Buell shipped 4,100 units in all of Europe in 2006.


Buell shipped less than half the number of competing bikes compared to Ducati in the USA.
 

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Re: Harley-Davidson and Ducati???? WTF

ChongMonster said:
The Ducati and Harley cultures are pure opposites.
Having had a harley and been part of that culture in the past, personally I can attest that the cultures are almost IDENTICAL. Oh there are a few minor things that are a little different, but those things are pretty much interchangable. About the only thing I don't see the Ducati riders do is have poker runs.

I bought my M800 cause it looked like it would be a blast to ride, just like my old sportster was (and so far this has proven to be true), and it's highly customizable. I'm already planning a bunch of mods to the bike to make it more like I want it (like getting rid of the udder, better seat, tail chop, hugger, etc). I think Ducati's are very much like Harley's and in many ways so are the riders (And both groups have had a large influx of yuppies! ;D )

I don't buy my bikes because of what I think other people will think or will like. I buy them because -I- ride them! I am a motorcycle enthusiast, and if I was rich, I'd have more motorcycles than Jay Leno! Whether or not Ducati and Harley do any sort of a deal remains to be seen, but I don't think it would hurt either company, and hopefully it would increase the accessories market.
 

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Re: Harley-Davidson and Ducati???? WTF

Banner said:
Whether or not Ducati and Harley do any sort of a deal remains to be seen, but I don't think it would hurt either company, and hopefully it would increase the accessories market.
Okay, I can see chrome on the Monsters and maybe even fringed leathers. But I'm not sure about carbon fiber on a Road King.
[laugh]
 

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Re: Harley-Davidson and Ducati???? WTF

Banner said:
Having had a harley and been part of that culture in the past, personally I can attest that the cultures are almost IDENTICAL. Oh there are a few minor things that are a little different, but those things are pretty much interchangable. About the only thing I don't see the Ducati riders do is have poker runs.

I bought my M800 cause it looked like it would be a blast to ride, just like my old sportster was (and so far this has proven to be true), and it's highly customizable. I'm already planning a bunch of mods to the bike to make it more like I want it (like getting rid of the udder, better seat, tail chop, hugger, etc). I think Ducati's are very much like Harley's and in many ways so are the riders (And both groups have had a large influx of yuppies! ;D )

I don't buy my bikes because of what I think other people will think or will like. I buy them because -I- ride them! I am a motorcycle enthusiast, and if I was rich, I'd have more motorcycles than Jay Leno! Whether or not Ducati and Harley do any sort of a deal remains to be seen, but I don't think it would hurt either company, and hopefully it would increase the accessories market.
Well said. Me too.
 

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http://www.ducati.com/company/pr_eng_2281_0_20070710_consob_eng.pdf

Press release requested by Consob

Bologna, July 10th, 2007 - As per Consob’s request and in the light of the recent increase of
Ducati’s stock and the news reported by the press, the Company affirms that no contact is
being made with any third party regarding a potential M&A strategic agreement.
Furthermore, Ducati confirms that it is currently focused on the review of strategic and
operative plans for a further relaunch of its operations which will be presented to the market
by the end of the year.

Founded in 1926, Ducati builds racing-inspired motorcycles characterized by unique engine features, innovative
design, advanced engineering and overall technical excellence. The Company produces motorcycles in seven
market segments which vary in their technical and design features and intended customers: Superbike,
Supersport, Monster, Sport Touring, Multistrada SportClassic and the new Hypermotard. The Company’s
motorcycles are sold in more than 60 countries worldwide, with a primary focus in the Western European, Japan
and North American markets. Ducati has won fourteen of the last sixteen World Superbike Championship titles
and more individual victories than the competition put together. Since 2003 Ducati has also been taking part in
the MotoGP World Championship. For more information about the Company, please visit our web site at
http://www.ducati.com

This press release contains statements that are forward-looking and are subject to a number of risks and
uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated.

For further information, please contact:

Paolo Poma
Director Investor Relations
Ducati Motor Holding S.p.A.
Via Cavalieri Ducati, 3
Bologna 40132, Italy
e-mail: [email protected]
Main Tel: +39 051 6413111
Direct Tel: +39 051 6413213
 

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Deja vue all over again

Harley-Davidson Wants to Take Over Ducati: Report

Demand for Harleys is sinking due to an aging customer base and VW Group needs to raise cash. Could the Italian bike builder end up in the hands of Milwaukee's motor company?

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a10201666/harley-davidson-ducati/
Did you read the Financial Times article at the beginning of this thread. It said that half the Harley owners in the US owned a Ducati as well. Damn! I'm not unique at all! :frown
 

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Did you read the Financial Times article at the beginning of this thread. It said that half the Harley owners in the US owned a Ducati as well. Damn! I'm not unique at all! :frown

No. It said "Half of all Ducati owners in the US also own a Harley". BIG difference.
 

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No. It said "Half of all Ducati owners in the US also own a Harley". BIG difference.
Yup; I got it backwards. Either way, I thought I was unique, but I'm not. I am having a great time teasing my Harley friends with this. Even my girlfriend who called me a "traitor" for buying the Monster is kinda having to eat her words now! :smile
 

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Yup; I got it backwards. Either way, I thought I was unique, but I'm not. I am having a great time teasing my Harley friends with this. Even my girlfriend who called me a "traitor" for buying the Monster is kinda having to eat her words now! :smile
Yeah, I'd be really surprised if half of Ducati owners really own Harleys. I know about 30-40 Ducati owners and can count on one hand the number that own Harleys. Of course I know of a few others who used to own Harleys but got rid of the soon after buying a Duc.
 

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I own both, and I run across a lot of others on the Ducati forums that are also Harley owners. Though I do have a hard time believing it's close to 50% considering how much unbridled hatred I read for Harley's on the Ducati forums. I don't feel like I'm getting that much support when I defend HD.
 
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