[Trumper]

Ahoy.

I'm planning on "upgrading" next spring and thought I'd ask for a bit of advice. Here's the background:

6'2", 180#
20 years exp., but just back for 6 months riding now after a 10 year layoff.
Currently on a Kawak w650--great Bonneville retro. Torquey, no leaks, electrics work, no wrenching loose stuff every 2 rides. Great around town and fun (though a bit limited in the twisties) in the hills.

I have a short commute to work, don't want/need a freeway/long distance machine, and I love getting up in the foothills (I can be at Alice's in 12 minutes from my house (lucky me!).

So I'm thinking naked, liter. I tested a Tuono a while back. Awesome. Loved the bike, the build quality, and the "feel." Didn't like the price ($13.6k OTD + another $1k or so to pipe/chip/airbox it) or the feeling that I needed to be above 7k rpm to really feel "right" on it. You really had to work it and sometimes I just want to thug around....

I'm planning on checking out the M1000 and S4r next week. But, does Ducati even do demos? Locally (Palo Alto)?

One big issue for me is that I *love* a torquey bike...I really don't like something where "life begins at 7,000 rpm." So I'm thinking M1000 as the board consensus seems to be that the S4r outshoots the M1000 above 7,000 rpm and at higher speeds, but the 1000 is fatter at low rpms. I don't care what happens at 80+....I'm really concerned about what happens at 3 or 4k rpm and I wrist it.

The Tuono felt about right for my 6'2" frame...but barely. My knees just fit on the tank...so it was tight. From what I can surmise here, the Duc is set for a smaller rider? I really don't want to have that grasshopper feeling. Are lower/back rearsets available (that aren't unobtanium and $400+)?

Will I need to do the Tuono thing and add cans/chip/airbox just to get it up to snuff?

Again, this is for around town, short commutes, and mostly in the foothills. I'm not a wannabe racer or high revver--just wanna have more performance and fun.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Tom

p.s. I've already checked out the Suzuki, Kawaks, and Yammie naked's...not for me. I'm hung on the Italian beauties.... and the Monster is calling....

 

[MikeD5172]

One big issue for me is that I *love* a torquey bike...I really don't like something where "life begins at 7,000 rpm."

 

[humungus]

I totally love my S4R, but to be honest it kind of bogs under 4500 in anything except 1st gear, but its really been no problem for me, either in town or on the highway---no matter what gear, just one downshift is all it ever takes to put it in the powerband---also its quite happy cruising along at 6000 or above. I also have a Honda 919 that has a much broader powerband than the S4R , almost never have to downshift...just leave it in 3rd all day

 

[Speeddog]

These are dyno curves straight from www.ducati.com:

M1000 may be marginally fatter on torque below 4500rpm, but not by much.

You'll want to put cans on either one if you want to really hear the desmo music. General opinion is that cans don't effect the mixture or the power much on 2-valvers. It seems likely that the S4R will gain power and require some mixture compensation with cans, as the same motor makes much more power in an ST4S, and the only significant difference we know of is the exhaust system.

Visually the bikes are different, the M1000 a little more conventional and uncomplicated than the S4R.

Just to muddy your waters even further, there are still some '02 S4 Monsters on dealer floors. One of the folks here just went that way instead of an M1000. AFAIK, the $ were about the same.
---------------------edit---------------------------------
Humungus, there's 50 HP available at 4500rpm ???
You're smokin' most cars just with that, amd you've got 60 HP more after that...........

 

[CRASH!]

I've demoed Ducati's but I'm not from over your way so I don't know how they handle things. BCM just gives me the keys. I rode a 999 at Seacoast and they took me out for a loop.

Regarding fit, I'm 6'1" and I have to put the balls of my feet on the pegs for my knees to tuck into the tank cutout properly. But since that's the correct way to ride anyway, NBD.

I demoed the S4R and found it to have a better position for a big rider. It's set up taller and I found it offered more leg room. Strangely though the pegs seemed really close to center and my feet didn't feel as secure on them. I'm sure I could get used to it, especially since the reward is much better lean angles.

I also liked the bars on the S4R. I hated the stock 900 bars and quickly changed to clip-ons. The S4R bars are certainly taller than my clip-ons, but I may have been able to live with them if I had that bike instead.

Of course out-the-door price for an S4R is going to be pretty close to the Tuono. Maintenance will also cost more than an M1000.

The 1000 is more of a pure naked in my mind; air cooling is just much cleaner looking. I think it's enough bike for what you want to do with it. If the S4R didn't have better ergos, it'd be a slam-dunk for the M1000.

 

[jblouch]

The new DS M1000's performance is more than adequate for what it sounds like you want. Much simpler and less costly to maintain over the 4V S4 and looks good naked. Keep in mind the 4V motor, like the motor on a Triumph Speed Triple, was never intended to be seen and to many is a rather odd looking arrangement. There's plenty of room for a larger pilot and an after market seat (Sargent) will help considerably. This month's Motorcyclist magazine has a great article on "fun" motorcycle which includes a good write up on the S4R (M1000 mentioned as well). If you're looking for the most bang for your buck, you need to look at the Suzuki SV650 or even the 1000. Not much character, but great bikes for not much money. You can literally buy two SV1000's for the price of a Tuono. Lot's to ponder. Good luck.

 

[ScottRNelson]

I just finished reading the Motorcylist article on which bikes are the "most fun", and they felt that both the M1000 and the Multistrada were probably more fun than the S4R. The S4R just wasn't as well behaved at low speeds. They only recommended the S4R if you want to be going faster at the end of the straight, or if you're buying it for its looks.

At least sit on a Multistrada before ruling it out. That may be one of the most fun all around bikes there is.

Ducati of Marin has been known to give test rides. Some of the other dealers will let you ride used bikes, if they have anything you're interested in.

 

[humungus]

---------------------edit---------------------------------
Humungus, there's 50 HP available at 4500rpm ???
You're smokin' most cars just with that, amd you've got 60 HP more after that...........

Maybe "bogs" below 4500 was the wrong word. What I'm trying to convey is the response of my bike when I whack the throttle. When I do this at 4500, my bike lugs (is that the right word ?) for a short time--it feels as though I should downshift--I cant say for sure if its just particular to my bike or not. When I hit the throttle at 6000, the response is immediate. Anyone else know what I'm trying to say ? I'm not exactly sure how this relates to the hp/torque curves.

 

[T-BOOGIE]

Check out Munroe Motors in SF, they should let you do a test ride. You can also hit up Scuderia, which is a few blocks away. They are an Aprilla dealership. That way you can test them back to back. Hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

Trumper, I'm 6' 170lbs, and own an M1000. The bike has the flattest most useable torque curve and power delivery of any ike I've spent any time on. It's not a mannic power delivery at any RPM, just smooth and predictable. Sounds like it may be the bike for you, but you'll have to make that call. Go ride it!

 

[iamic]

I'm 6"4" 170lbs and have no problems with comfort on my 750. As Don_McDaniel said, riding in the proper postion (balls of feet on the pegs) is actually more comfortable. I also agree that the S4R felt most similar in ergonomics to the Tuono, which fit me very well.

I've had the opportunity to demo the M1000s, the S4R and the Touno - the Ducatis as Ducati of Marin and the Aprilia at Scuderia - I concluded that if I were to trade in my 750, I would buy the M1000s. The M1000 just seemed more like a true "Monster" to me than the S4R and felt more appropriate for "The Pace" style twisty riding I mostly do. The Tuono was fabulous, but it just doesn't have the character of a Monster. But, with all that said, you really need to find out for yourself.

BTW, if you go for the Tuono, I highly recommend Scuderia - they're all really f'n cool there.