you can get em from 'VEE TWO' here in perth http://veetwo.net/mainpages/ProductDetails.aspx?id=Adjustable Pulleys
if your valve train parts are machined 100% accurate adjustable pulley's wont make any difference at all, they're really only gunna make up for tollerances during manufacture of the engine.

BUT..

 

I was reading the Moto One site that said they can get more HP out of your engine just in tuning.

they listed adjusting cam timing, carburation & ignition.

That's what made me think that there must be a better that standard valve timing to get better performance.

 

Dunno about the 2-valvers, but my 4-V has uncooperative little 'spanner' nuts holding the pulleys onto the cams.
Your motors are civilized and actually use a real nut?

Moto One is some sharp guys. Apparently, the tolerance stackup on everything is such that the timing can be off quite a bit, so 'dialing' the cams likely can help. Apparently moreso on the 4-V's, as there are twice as many cams to be wrong...

 

Hey Nick,

Mine have got those 4 slotted Lock Nut bolts on em. You need a hook spanner to get em off.

Not sure if this is a feasable upgrade, but will see what others come back with.

 

I'm assuming the pulley kit comes with that tool, I don't have one. Spanner nuts like that aren't very common.
I'm sure a Duc shop has one, but that doesn't help you at all....

I'm sure it's like adjusting the valve clearance, kinda tedious.

 

Nick,
Here's the pulleys of the CA Cycle site.

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/img/stm_adj_pulley.jpg

The tool comes seperate, see here.

http://www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/catalog/ducati/img/stm_tool.jpg

I'm hoping someone's done this mod & can report on any improovement?

Just sounds good the way Moto One wrote it up.
Also avail from V2 as Monsta said.

 

mine's had the horrible castle nut thingy's on. They sell normal nuts at veetwo $12aus each and they fit a 17mm socket. and the nuts also come with the adjustable pulley kit.

 

I was reading the Moto One site that said they can get more HP out of your engine just in tuning.

they listed adjusting cam timing, carburation & ignition.

That's what made me think that there must be a better that standard valve timing to get better performance.

I think its at least partly that the manufacturing tolerances are poor enough on the valve timing that taking the time to "dial" them is often worthwhile...

You don't need adjuatable pulleys though, you can get offset woodruff keys in half degree increments instead... The adjustable ones are probably nice if you want to spend the time/money dyno tuning the cam timing to suit the rest of your mods, but if you've just trying to make sure you've got the "correct" stock timimg (or even a specific "good" alternative timing), then you can just measure up what you've currently got, and buy the right keys to get where you want to be...

The cannonical piece on valve timing seems to be this:

http://mail.symuli.com/vw/camp1.html

cheers,

big

 

my understanding of cam pulleys is that you dont get more power from this mod .,but it does allows you to move the power band around. talk to jim or jon @nicholsmfg.com. they manufacture thier own pulleys and would be happy to explain advantages.

 

The cannonical piece on valve timing seems to be this:

http://mail.symuli.com/vw/camp1.html

cheers,

big

canonical... Reduced to the simplest and most significant form possible without loss of generality!

I had to look that one up big!
kinda ironic because you could have said something simple to replace it! ;D

 

I carried out this mod while repairing another minor ducati experience . What the adjustable pullies allow you to do is keep up with cam belt stretch which retards the cam timeing .Yes you can get offset keys from the duc shop but only a few variences so your cam timeing will be a compremise .The pullies allow you to adjust out the belt stretch and advance or retard your cam timing to suit your engine tune or where you want the power to come on .
CHEERS
RABBIT ( may all your victories be over the bevels )

 

Do you need pulleys for both cylinders? Seems to me you can try to dial in the one with the stock pulleys and adjust the other one to match.

 

Do you need pulleys for both cylinders?

 

Thanks, Herb.

 

Dialing my cams either by pulleys or offset woodruff keys is on my list of things to do. I really should do a dyno-tune afterward to get my PC III remapped, since changing the valve timing is going to change the airflow vs. RPM. That makes it a sizeable project. Maybe tie it in with some other mods to get the most out of the dyno-tune.

Thanks for the link and the vocab lesson, big, and the 'lookup', monsta.

A couple of the S4 guys I know have done it, and are quite happy with the results.

 

So Guys, talink about Dialing?

I assume the practise would be to set up a Degree Wheel on the Ballance shaft & check the actuation of the Opening rocker arm in relation to TDC (or 6deg BTDC) & read off how many degrees before or after on the degree wheel to see the Degrees that the actuation is off ??? And then the same at 180deg for the Horizontal cylinder ???

Then with the adjustable pulleys adjust each cam pulley to the desired opeing degree ???

Can Anybody explain (correct) or elaborate on this?

 

I just finished dialing my cams (again) last night. Actually, the idea of assuming the manufacturing variances between engines extends to the cam duration also. So the guru guys measure the opening, the closing, and use a formula to get each cam's "centerline", and go from there. This is a sonofab!tch on a 4V engine for a garage guy without factory tools. You have to go around and around to get repeatable, both opening and closing, numbers you can trust. I tried this the first time I degreed my cams. After a few hours, I said F-it. So, I skip this step, and set to the openings. But don't call me lazy, this is still very tedious; I set my cams (at .040" lift) to the exact degree I was targeting. Plus, there is a sizable school of thought, that I side with, that thinks the opening and closing "events" to have more significance anyway; especially intake openings and exhaust closings.

I'm running the Vee Two pulleys. The Vee Two pulleys are infinitely adjustable. The STM pulleys adjust in 2 degree increments.

you can get em from 'VEE TWO' here in Perth. BUT..

 

I just finished dialing my cams (again) last night.

You have to go around and around to get repeatable, both opening and closing, numbers you can trust. I tried this the first time I degreed my cams. After a few hours, I said F-it. So, I skip this step, and set to the openings. But don't call me lazy, this is still very tedious; I set my cams (at .04" lift) to the exact degree I was targeting.

So did you go down the path of setting all your clearances to the "checking clearance" before measuring up, or did you do it all at running clearances? The idea of setting all the valve clearances to 40 thou before attempting to adjust the cam timing, then having to go back and set the clearances again afterwards not only sounds like a hassle, but it'll require a stock of shims I just dont have to hand...

big

 

Phew, Definately not a job i'd attempt at home by the look of the reply's. Definately not in Down Town Port Moresby anyway. I'd have to airfreight a range of shims in to even attempt the job.

Best wait till I ship the bike south for a Tourismo or something.

Keep the info comming though, this is interesting

 

So did you go down the path of setting all your clearances to the "checking clearance" before measuring up, or did you do it all at running clearances?

Both.

I closed the "running" clearance between the opener shims and the rocker pads to nil with the necessary feeler gauges, and dialed to .040" actual lift at the valves. i.e., "checking" clearance.

An interesting note:

I found that .002" lift equates to roughly one degree cam timing. So, if someone's not serious about those valve adjustments, I think it would be a waste of time for them to consider dialing their cams in...

Also, the offset keys you refer to in an earlier post only come in two degree increments (sixteen degrees max). Not half-degree like you state.

 

This is good information, gaawd, when i thought of re-shimming & then re-shimming again, I thought forget about it!

Closing the running clearances with feeler guages is a good trick.

So with the Jackshaft pulley aligned with the timing marks & the cam dialed in at .040" lift with a dial gauge, is it just a matter of adjusting the "Adjustable pulley to keep the jack shaft on it's mark & the cam pulley at the point of 0.040 lift, then tighten it all up & do the other cylinder?

Hey Big, obviously there is a written proceedure somewhere is that in the Haynes manual? All i have is a photocopy ducati genuine one that's an inch & a half thick, but in 5 languages.
Verry Vague :

Then this is obviously the std, or manufacturers spec. Can one get to this point & then alter (advance or retard) by a set amount of degree's to change the power curve (as described in the link above) Although is seems any advance or retard from the std cam timing is trial & error & needs to be run on a dyno to get the true result.

Is their a max degrees one can advance or retart without getting into metal to metal problems?

 

Everytime I asked Manely Cycle about it they said there wasn't any point really in getting adj. cam pulley's on a 2V......Bling without sting?

 

So with the Jackshaft pulley aligned with the timing marks & the cam dialed in at .040" lift with a dial gauge, is it just a matter of adjusting the "Adjustable pulley to keep the jack shaft on it's mark & the cam pulley at the point of 0.040 lift, then tighten it all up & do the other cylinder?

Forget about using the mark on the jackshaft. That's useless for anything other than simple belt replacement. Definitely use a degree wheel attached to the crankshaft. You can download a freebie. Print it out on quality photo paper, glue it to a piece of poster board, or something ridge. It works fine. You will need to make a "dead stop" device from an old sparkplug to accurately find top-dead-center (TDC). And tighten those belts before you start to simulate high RPM running tension.

http://www.machinerycleanery.com/DegreeWheelSingles.htm

"Is their a max degrees one can advance or retard without getting into metal to metal problems?"

Yes, of course there is. And, if you are unsure of where that point is (and each engine is a little different, remember? ), then it might be best to be conservative here, or just set to OEM specs:

http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/duccamspec.html

But first things first: Check them. They might be within an acceptable range.

 

For some late night reading visit the Ducati Owners Club of Victoria web site they have some good words on 4 cycle engines and cam dialing . I know what you mean about ducati and haynes manuals when it gets too hard they both send you off to your local ducati dealer :

Part of the above article gives a figure of 12 degrees advance on 1989 900SS and gives touque curves before and after .

CHEERS

RABBIT

 

Thanks Rabbit, i'll check it out.

Getting a couple of Dial Guages & mag. Bases today so i'll just check it first & see how it stacks up to what it should be.