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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am responding to a post by sozo titled “should I flame my dealer?”. I am creating a new post because the subject breaches the original post and touches on a much broader subject. Let me start by saying that anyone with any compassion for biking, let alone, life, should feel your pain. We have all been the recipient of faulty products, some are terminal failures, and others are nuisance failures. Additionally, the way in which the problem is addressed has as great a bearing on ones emotions regardless of the outcome. With all of that said, here is my story.

First, some background: I am a 48 year-old business man whom spends every non-family hour building or rebuilding things. You name it, I’ve rebuilt it or built it. Bold statement! I started rebuilding cars with my dad at the age of twelve. We bought a 29 Model A for $250 and restored it over the next 3 years. I was my daily and only car until I was 17, at which point I started driving a 28 Chevy, which restored the summer of my 16th year. During that time I was employed by my father as a draftsman. He had placed a drawing table in my room, and he brought home components form old machines that need documenting. He was in the business of rebuilding and building from scratch, automotive production machines. I have restored grand pianos, motorcycles, homes and businesses. I don’t think twice about machining a rare component, as I just restored a 47 Douglas. I was a design engineer until I opened my own company, now I manage the daily activities of my company. My company designs medical devices. All products are subject to failure, as they are the product mans best effort. More specifically, they are thraught (sp?) with conflicting tolerances. Engineers, production folks and product managers pray for statistical normality. But alas, natures unawareness of our existence bites us in the behind every once in a while. Such a “while” happened to me this summer. After 4 years of busting my butt to make my company go, we were realizing some success. One beautiful summer night, my wife and I were enjoying a scotch on the deck of a canyon restaurant in Morrison, Colorado, just down the road from our house. As we sat in the evening sun watching the cycles go by I commented that “someday I would like to own a sport bike”. Mind you, I had a garage full of bikes, but all touring or antiques. To my surprise my wife said “you should treat yourself to a sport bike”. End of conversation, the bike was in my garage by the following Tuesday. I bought an “in the box” 04 Honda Super Hawk. When asked why a Super Hawk by my riding buddies, I responded “I wanted a reliable Ducati”. Three months and several legal bills later, we (the dealership and I) settled “out of court”. I was never so glad to be done with a bike in my life. The Super Hawk had a tendency to stall, when cruising above 30 mph, whenever I pulled in the clutch and attempted to let the motor idle. My heart-ache was identical to sozo’s, remove “vibration” and insert “stalling”. I had performed research on the subject, I had engineers run some analysis, which I tried to share with the dealer. I even attempted to pay all of the extra costs to replace the bike with an identical bike on the dealer’s floor. I was only after the dealer, supported by the regional Honda representative told me to “change my riding style” that I called my corporate layer and unleashed my furry. It cost me $1,500 out of pocket, as legal expenses were not covered unless we went to court. After settling, I walked out of the Honda dealership, walked straight into a Ducati dealership and told the salesman “I want a reliable Honda”. I am a happy owner of an S2R 1000, gloss black, plenty of carbon (Ducati’s equivalent of crack). I should have bought a Ducati. Sozo, my advice is this, sell the bike and buy something else. Perhaps you can pressure the dealer for a good price on a new or used Ducati, or perhaps you can find a Honda you like. The Super Hawk is a great bike when you get a good one. I lost $1,500 dollars, I found satisfaction. Peace
 
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That's a cool story, especially about the way you grew up. Sounds like you had a really fun and cool hobby with your pops. (hobby to start out with later turning into your profession and perhaps lifestyle?)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
pt33, thanks for the message, and yes, my father saved my life through hands on education. I flunked-out of high school, but found my way to collage after figuring out my learning disability. My father passed away at 53 years olds, before I graduated engineering school. I day doesn’t go by without a positive thought of my dad, my teacher. Ride to ride another day.
 

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Thanks for the empathy, dwright. I hate that anyone has to go through an experience like ours. This has been too much drama for me, I'm really sick about the whole sorry deal.
I really love the Ducati, it had been one of my favorite possessions until this happened. I have looked at other bikes, but nothing out of Japan satisfies me. All the bikes I drool over are Italians, Ducatis and MV Agustas. Neither brand has a dealer anywhere close.
Caught in a crossfire of co-worker abuse, I swore I'd never ride a Honda. So an RC51 or SuperHawk are out of the question.
I looked at the new S4Rs at my dealer when I went to get my bike the first time. "If my bike is really as good as you say it is", I asked, "why don't you give me a really good trade towards the new bike?" He offered me wholesale for my bike. Just as well. I don't think I want to take a $$$ hit on a new bike again.
 

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I agree with Dwright that leaving a company as an unsatisfied customer is the only recourse if they fail to provide the services you require. Dwright, exercised his right after he had exhausted all other avenues and was forced to sue the dealership. I don't know all the details of your situation, sozo, but I'm not sure you have exhausted all possible avenues quite yet, so don't be too downtrodden.

I have been down a similar road with my Duc after a minor getoff appeared as though it caused serious internal damage to critical (and therefore extremely expensive) engine components. I felt such damage after a minor crash into a roadside gravel-trap at low speed was unreasonable, and I thought I was going to need to exercise my right, to scrap the bike and buy something that could hold together (actually I was going to air-freight the bike back to the Ducati museum [laugh] that would have been a story for the grandkids).

Thankfully, someone on the DML suggested to me that I contact DNA. After I contacted them, they assigned me a customer service representative who took down all the details of my case. He contacted the dealership on my behalf and the problem was resolved within 15 minutes. There was no incidence of dealer fraud b/c the dealer advised me only to replace the most damaged pieces and then ride the bike with whatever slight flaws it may have had. It turns out there had been some misunderstanding and some miscommunication.

I think a couple of things could have happened:

1. After a long stint of working on one of the shops race bikes, a tech opened my bike and was a bit over analytical.
2. They decided to give me a worst case scenario in hopes that technical data would give me good news later.

My problems were conjured up by misunderstandings. I'm sure yours are very real, and I'm not sure this sitou will work out in your favor, but whatever the problem is I can tell you with some certainty that DNA will work on your behalf. As Michael Lock said at the AMS unveiling "We love our Ducatisti, but unfortunately there are too few of you." It seems ironic the DNA CEO would say that in the same dealership only a few hours after your experiences, but I think his sentiments are genuine, and I believe they have trickled down to other branches of the organization.

Good Luck
 

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dwright said:
I am responding to a post by sozo titled “should I flame my dealer?”. I am creating a new post because the subject breaches the original post and touches on a much broader subject. Let me start by saying that anyone with any compassion for biking, let alone, life, should feel your pain. We have all been the recipient of faulty products, some are terminal failures, and others are nuisance failures. Additionally, the way in which the problem is addressed has as great a bearing on ones emotions regardless of the outcome. With all of that said, here is my story.

First, some background: I am a 48 year-old business man whom spends every non-family hour building or rebuilding things. You name it, I’ve rebuilt it or built it. Bold statement! I started rebuilding cars with my dad at the age of twelve. We bought a 29 Model A for $250 and restored it over the next 3 years. I was my daily and only car until I was 17, at which point I started driving a 28 Chevy, which restored the summer of my 16th year. During that time I was employed by my father as a draftsman. He had placed a drawing table in my room, and he brought home components form old machines that need documenting. He was in the business of rebuilding and building from scratch, automotive production machines. I have restored grand pianos, motorcycles, homes and businesses. I don’t think twice about machining a rare component, as I just restored a 47 Douglas. I was a design engineer until I opened my own company, now I manage the daily activities of my company. My company designs medical devices. All products are subject to failure, as they are the product mans best effort. More specifically, they are thraught (sp?) with conflicting tolerances. Engineers, production folks and product managers pray for statistical normality. But alas, natures unawareness of our existence bites us in the behind every once in a while. Such a “while” happened to me this summer. After 4 years of busting my butt to make my company go, we were realizing some success. One beautiful summer night, my wife and I were enjoying a scotch on the deck of a canyon restaurant in Morrison, Colorado, just down the road from our house. As we sat in the evening sun watching the cycles go by I commented that “someday I would like to own a sport bike”. Mind you, I had a garage full of bikes, but all touring or antiques. To my surprise my wife said “you should treat yourself to a sport bike”. End of conversation, the bike was in my garage by the following Tuesday. I bought an “in the box” 04 Honda Super Hawk. When asked why a Super Hawk by my riding buddies, I responded “I wanted a reliable Ducati”. Three months and several legal bills later, we (the dealership and I) settled “out of court”. I was never so glad to be done with a bike in my life. The Super Hawk had a tendency to stall, when cruising above 30 mph, whenever I pulled in the clutch and attempted to let the motor idle. My heart-ache was identical to sozo’s, remove “vibration” and insert “stalling”. I had performed research on the subject, I had engineers run some analysis, which I tried to share with the dealer. I even attempted to pay all of the extra costs to replace the bike with an identical bike on the dealer’s floor. I was only after the dealer, supported by the regional Honda representative told me to “change my riding style” that I called my corporate layer and unleashed my furry. It cost me $1,500 out of pocket, as legal expenses were not covered unless we went to court. After settling, I walked out of the Honda dealership, walked straight into a Ducati dealership and told the salesman “I want a reliable Honda”. I am a happy owner of an S2R 1000, gloss black, plenty of carbon (Ducati’s equivalent of crack). I should have bought a Ducati. Sozo, my advice is this, sell the bike and buy something else. Perhaps you can pressure the dealer for a good price on a new or used Ducati, or perhaps you can find a Honda you like. The Super Hawk is a great bike when you get a good one. I lost $1,500 dollars, I found satisfaction. Peace
cool story, but...

paragraphs? line breaks?
 

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Your story is rather uplifting in a strange way. Though the long process of dealing with your dealer sounds like a complete nightmare, capable of giving one raging ulcers, you did something about it. It is too bad that it went so far as it did, but it sounds like you refused to just roll over and die. The sad fact of the matter is, most people do allow the dealer to walk all over them and win.

Thanks for the good story! The every-man wins! Oh, and I'm graduating with a degree in Mechanical Engineering in May 2007. Will you hire me? ;)

-Danimal
 

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dwright said:
pt33, thanks for the message, and yes, my father saved my life through hands on education. I flunked-out of high school, but found my way to collage after figuring out my learning disability. My father passed away at 53 years olds, before I graduated engineering school. I day doesn’t go by without a positive thought of my dad, my teacher. Ride to ride another day.
+1 for your father, it's too bad you didn't both share in your glory on your graduation day sounds like he'd be a proud father indeed.
 

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I had a long talk with DNA customer service today. I told him that AMS denied changing out anything in the exhaust system like he told me they said last week. He said we apparently have some miscommunication. Yes, apparently so. I recounted the grubby, scuffed up bike I received and the poor treatment I got.
I told him had I known that Micheal Lock was going to be at AMS that day, I would have stayed to talk with him. When I told him I would very much like to talk to Mr. Lock, he said he wasn't in and didn't normally take calls from customers anyway. I figured as much. Thats why they hire customer service guys.
He said he wanted to get the dealer's side of the story (this should be good) and get back to me later in the week.
So I'm still fighting the good fight, wish me well.
JP
 

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Dwright,

Great thread. I agree with you about cutting your loses, & thought about suggesting the same to Soso earlier, but now we find out the dealer was not even willing to meet him half way (a decent price break on a new, more expensive bike or a decent price for soso's bike. I don't think the dealers, who I do think are running very marginal businesses these days & I really try to go out of my way to defend, understand how insulting their actions can be. I paid list for my BMW several years ago, never complained about high service costs or list price for tires, and when my dealer truly screws up with not torqueing my rear lug bolts, they replace one of my bunged up lug bolts with a used one, don't do anything about a rear wheel with noticlble metal loss on the hub, but golly, do offer me $75 off my NEXT tire service. When the relationship is all a one way street, it doesn't work. I'll pick up my toys and play with another dealer nearby. Soso unfortunately, in his sparse dealership situation, is really over the barrel.

Soso,

Hang in there man, worst case scenario, cut your loses. FWIW, you might check out a BMW R1200S with the Ohlins option if you have a BMW dealer nearby. In the real world they run very well, plus you can get some creature comforts like heated grips. HP is down a bit from a S4Rs, but torque is up (of course as is weight). San Jose BMW just won the 8 hour endurance race at Imola (800 & some miles, I hear from the pit crew the bike was WOT pretty much the whole way, beat Team Suzuki & several Ducs) on a R1200S. Stylewise not a Duc, but an interesting ride anyway, & its not Japanese. You also might look at Triumphs. The S3 is very nice, very nice motor, very holigan.

Is there anyway that another S2R rider from the board could meet up with you & you could switch bikes to help quantify the problem? Might help.
 

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We do have a BMW dealer in town. I've never been there, though. I guess I should start looking at some local alternatives. I'm not sure what happened to our Triumph dealer. He told me to wait for the 1050 Triple to ride, but I had to have a my S4R. That bug-eye thing bothered me and besides, I felt like I would be settling for less than my dream if I bought the Triple. The only other naked that really captured my imagination was a stripped down ZX-10R in a magazine recently. Very hooligan.
JP
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
derby, You have uncovered one of my greatest faults, writing. It literally kept me from writing anything in grade school through high school. What is even worse is that I know it exists. However, I have found that a good message worded poorly is better than a bad message worded eloquently. I will pass my posting by my technical writing department, unless it is a weekend posting.
 

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dwright said:
derby, You have uncovered one of my greatest faults, writing. It literally kept me from writing anything in grade school through high school. What is even worse is that I know it exists. However, I have found that a good message worded poorly is better than a bad message worded eloquently. I will pass my posting by my technical writing department, unless it is a weekend posting.

dwright, your post was fine. And I think all derby ment was "hit enter", because the post can be very hard on the eyes when there are no breaks. Even worse when it's white text on a dark field. I don't think he was playing English Teacher. [thumbsup]

Hell, if that's the case, I know I'd get an F for most of my posts! [laugh]
 
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dwright said:
I am responding to a post by sozo titled “should I flame my dealer?”. I am creating a new post because the subject breaches the original post and touches on a much broader subject. Let me start by saying that anyone with any compassion for biking, let alone, life, should feel your pain. We have all been the recipient of faulty products, some are terminal failures, and others are nuisance failures. Additionally, the way in which the problem is addressed has as great a bearing on ones emotions regardless of the outcome. With all of that said, here is my story.

First, some background: I am a 48 year-old business man whom spends every non-family hour building or rebuilding things. You name it, I’ve rebuilt it or built it. Bold statement! I started rebuilding cars with my dad at the age of twelve. We bought a 29 Model A for $250 and restored it over the next 3 years. I was my daily and only car until I was 17, at which point I started driving a 28 Chevy, which restored the summer of my 16th year.

During that time I was employed by my father as a draftsman.He had placed a drawing table in my room, and he brought home components form old machines that need documenting. He was in the business of rebuilding and building from scratch, automotive production machines. I have restored grand pianos, motorcycles, homes and businesses. I don’t think twice about machining a rare component, as I just restored a 47 Douglas. I was a design engineer until I opened my own company, now I manage the daily activities of my company. My company designs medical devices. All products are subject to failure, as they are the product mans best effort. More specifically, they are thraught (sp?) with conflicting tolerances. Engineers, production folks and product managers pray for statistical normality. But alas, natures unawareness of our existence bites us in the behind every once in a while. Such a “while” happened to me this summer.

After 4 years of busting my butt to make my company go, we were realizing some success. One beautiful summer night, my wife and I were enjoying a scotch on the deck of a canyon restaurant in Morrison, Colorado, just down the road from our house. As we sat in the evening sun watching the cycles go by I commented that “someday I would like to own a sport bike”. Mind you, I had a garage full of bikes, but all touring or antiques. To my surprise my wife said “you should treat yourself to a sport bike”. End of conversation, the bike was in my garage by the following Tuesday.

I bought an “in the box” 04 Honda Super Hawk. When asked why a Super Hawk by my riding buddies, I responded “I wanted a reliable Ducati”. Three months and several legal bills later, we (the dealership and I) settled “out of court”. I was never so glad to be done with a bike in my life. The Super Hawk had a tendency to stall, when cruising above 30 mph, whenever I pulled in the clutch and attempted to let the motor idle. My heart-ache was identical to sozo’s, remove “vibration” and insert “stalling”. I had performed research on the subject, I had engineers run some analysis, which I tried to share with the dealer. I even attempted to pay all of the extra costs to replace the bike with an identical bike on the dealer’s floor. I was only after the dealer, supported by the regional Honda representative told me to “change my riding style” that I called my corporate layer and unleashed my furry.

It cost me $1,500 out of pocket, as legal expenses were not covered unless we went to court. After settling, I walked out of the Honda dealership, walked straight into a Ducati dealership and told the salesman “I want a reliable Honda”. I am a happy owner of an S2R 1000, gloss black, plenty of carbon (Ducati’s equivalent of crack). I should have bought a Ducati.

Sozo, my advice is this, sell the bike and buy something else. Perhaps you can pressure the dealer for a good price on a new or used Ducati, or perhaps you can find a Honda you like. The Super Hawk is a great bike when you get a good one. I lost $1,500 dollars, I found satisfaction. Peace
 

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flaming (sorry, i had too)
 

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mylexicon said:
to

sorry, I had to too. ;D
hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahhahahaha
hahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahah
hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's what i get for being a chode! [clap]

(p.s. 'sorry. i had to, too')
 
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