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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I disagree. Monster SP should come with lightweight wheels. I did not say full carbon wheels though. Forged at least. Providing factory forged wheels should be the bare minimum. The stock cast wheels are too heavy. So why call it an SP? Why not simply make it the S if you are not going to upgrade the wheels? Also, carbon wheels are not made only for SSA bikes. BST makes carbon wheels for dual sided swingarm bikes also. So does Dymag, so does Thyssen Krupp, so does Rotobox, etc.
I'd be down for some forged aluminum wheels. Forged magnesium would have added cost to the tune of $2K+. Either way, IIRC, the wheels on the standard 937 already went on a diet relative to the 821 wheels. Why an SP? This is not the same SP as on their V4 bikes -- the level of trim and performance is different as is the price delta. The Monster SP falls into the same level as all the other 937 motor SP bikes, and is priced accordingly. And I'll argue that $18K to $20K for a Monster SP would be a tough sell.

I am well aware that carbon wheels are available for non-SSSA bikes. But the wheel YOU used as an example (SF V4SP) is the (original) variation of BST's RapidTEK and that is only available for SSSA bikes at the moment, and it's not likely they would retool the rear wheel for a limited number of Monster SPs. AFAIK, the other carbon wheel manufacturers are not contracted with Ducati, and Thyssen Krupp AG no longer makes wheels as I understand, though I doubt it's because of the failures they had when they were providing wheels for the S1000RR.
 

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I'd be down for some forged aluminum wheels. Forged magnesium would have added cost to the tune of $2K+. Either way, IIRC, the wheels on the standard 937 already went on a diet relative to the 821 wheels. Why an SP? This is not the same SP as on their V4 bikes -- the level of trim and performance is different as is the price delta. The Monster SP falls into the same level as all the other 937 motor SP bikes, and is priced accordingly. And I'll argue that $18K to $20K for a Monster SP would be a tough sell.

I am well aware that carbon wheels are available for non-SSSA bikes. But the wheel YOU used as an example (SF V4SP) is the (original) variation of BST's RapidTEK and that is only available for SSSA bikes at the moment, and it's not likely they would retool the rear wheel for a limited number of Monster SPs. AFAIK, the other carbon wheel manufacturers are not contracted with Ducati, and Thyssen Krupp AG no longer makes wheels as I understand, though I doubt it's because of the failures they had when they were providing wheels for the S1000RR.

Meh, still needs forged wheels from the factory. Without the increase in cost. This is 2022, forged wheels are not so exotic anymore, and thusly not so difficult to manufacture. If MT-09 SPs have them at $11k MSRP, so should the Monster SP which costs far more. Cast wheels are obsolete. Ducati shortchanging their customers again.
 

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Meh, still needs forged wheels from the factory. Without the increase in cost. This is 2022, forged wheels are not so exotic anymore, and thusly not so difficult to manufacture. If MT-09 SPs have them at $11k MSRP, so should the Monster SP which costs far more. Cast wheels are obsolete. Ducati shortchanging their customers again.
Meh. MT09 SP wheels are "spin forged" aka cold rolled cast wheels. They work great, are light and are definitely not forged. I have cold rolled wheels on my auto x car and they are strong and light, yet much less costly than a true forged wheels. As strong? No.
Anyways , forged wheels will increase cost. A lot.
 

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Anyways , forged wheels will increase cost. A lot.
Disagree. Ducati needs to provide forged wheels at the very least on any an all SP designations. If it will not include lightweight wheels, the SP designation is a bit disingenuous. SP is supposed to hold higher rank than S. So an SP with cast wheels is lame. It should only be an S.
 

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Disagree, you're not comparing comparable items.

Has anyone actually got an accurate weight on any of the wheels in question? I'd bet there's little to no difference in weight between the two. Rolling a casting doesn't make it a forging until a marketing guy says it's so. Castings have a more or less random grain structure, forging forces the aligned grain structure of a given billet to conform to the shape or the form it's forged into. Rolling can somewhat improve the mechanical properties of a casting but, this is mostly due to compression. It's still a casting, it just had one more fairly simple process applied only to the outer bead area of the wheel, still cast. A forging is exponentially better mechanically and can be engineered with lighter thinner cross sections everywhere yielding a lighter wheel. That costs, big, high end quality forgings will always be expensive, especially given the size of a wheel blank. Exotic materials like magnesium will add to that cost. Trying to make a Monster into a track or superbike is lame and is kind of why you never see Valentino Rossi taking to the grid on a naked bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Disagree, you're not comparing comparable items.

Has anyone actually got an accurate weight on any of the wheels in question? I'd bet there's little to no difference in weight between the two. Rolling a casting doesn't make it a forging until a marketing guy says it's so. Castings have a more or less random grain structure, forging forces the aligned grain structure of a given billet to conform to the shape or the form it's forged into. Rolling can somewhat improve the mechanical properties of a casting but, this is mostly due to compression. It's still a casting, it just had one more fairly simple process applied only to the outer bead area of the wheel, still cast. A forging is exponentially better mechanically and can be engineered with lighter thinner cross sections everywhere yielding a lighter wheel. That costs, big, high end quality forgings will always be expensive, especially given the size of a wheel blank. Exotic materials like magnesium will add to that cost. Trying to make a Monster into a track or superbike is lame and is kind of why you never see Valentino Rossi taking to the grid on a naked bike.
Spoken like a materials engineer ;)

IIRC, the Monster 937 wheels went on a 3-4 lbs diet compared to the 821 wheels. The new calipers and rotors have dropped and additional 3 lbs. of unsprung mass (I previously erred in stating 2lbs.) from the Monster/+ weight. Add some Ohlins front and rear, and you already have quite the improvement even if the wheels were to stay the same. Back in the day (God I sound old, lol), saving one pound of unsprung mass was the same as reducing the 10 lbs. of sprung mass. To be fair, I don't know if advances in suspension tech has reduced this number somewhat. And the suspension has to be adjusted accordingly to get the most performance. I've found the weight difference between a properly designed cast aluminum and forged aluminum wheels to be not as great as one might think. But as you mentioned, expense is an entirely different story. And for Ducati's non-extreme performance SP bikes (Monster, SS, Hypermotard), the cost vs. benefit simply isn't there. Magnesium? Forget it as a material that work hardens, I imagine that it would have a difficult time getting road/DOT approval. In fact, I can only think of only two road legal bikes that came with forged magnesium wheels, and they are quite spendy and specials.

And what's wrong with the Monster as a track bike? Just because they aren't faired doesn't mean you can't have fun. And:

😜
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Tire Wheel Motorcycle Vehicle Automotive tire
 

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Ha! Great pic, that's too funny, I stand corrected. I'll flog the life out of anything with an engine or motor, it's involuntary. As a guy who can only really keep one proper bike whole at a time, I'd track a girl's moped if that's what was running. Seems we agree that a wheel set that has to cost another 40% of the base price isn't worth the return on a bike of this pedigree and that the MT09SP wheel isn't really forged except in sales meetings. My pile has Marchesini wheels that are just as forged, I forged the "FORGED" decal so nobody thinks I'm lame...
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Ha! Great pic, that's too funny, I stand corrected. I'll flog the life out of anything with an engine or motor, it's involuntary. As a guy who can only really keep one proper bike whole at a time, I'd track a girl's moped if that's what was running. Seems we agree that a wheel set that has to cost another 40% of the base price isn't worth the return on a bike of this pedigree and that the MT09SP wheel isn't really forged except in sales meetings. My pile has Marchesini wheels that are just as forged, I forged the "FORGED" decal so nobody thinks I'm lame... View attachment 229609
That's a "pile???" Clearly, we have different standards! Sweet ride, nicely done!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Mine's getting forged wheels this winter. Just Aluminum though, I'm not fancy.
Nothing wrong with forged aluminum, either in looks or performance. My 1098, which has seen mostly street duty until now, still has the stock forged aluminum wheels, and I don't find them lacking in any way. Aftermarket are even nicer.
 

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Disagree, you're not comparing comparable items.

Has anyone actually got an accurate weight on any of the wheels in question? I'd bet there's little to no difference in weight between the two. Rolling a casting doesn't make it a forging until a marketing guy says it's so. Castings have a more or less random grain structure, forging forces the aligned grain structure of a given billet to conform to the shape or the form it's forged into. Rolling can somewhat improve the mechanical properties of a casting but, this is mostly due to compression. It's still a casting, it just had one more fairly simple process applied only to the outer bead area of the wheel, still cast. A forging is exponentially better mechanically and can be engineered with lighter thinner cross sections everywhere yielding a lighter wheel. That costs, big, high end quality forgings will always be expensive, especially given the size of a wheel blank. Exotic materials like magnesium will add to that cost. Trying to make a Monster into a track or superbike is lame and is kind of why you never see Valentino Rossi taking to the grid on a naked bike.
You are so right on your last sentence, way to many know it all Ricky Racers out there that would never ever know the difference. A bunch of posers!
 
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