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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think people forget that the Monster is the entry-level Ducati. It's the entrance to the brand for folks that want more highway capability than a Scrambler.

The OEM suspension, while nonadjustable, is more than adequate. Especially for smaller riders. What Ducati have built with the SP is a version of the Monster for the experienced riders that like the Ducati cachet, feel, and sound...but don't have the budget issues of the newer riders. People who are mature enough to know that 100hp is plenty, that a little comfort is nice, and that can benefit from the suspension and braking changes.

The bike is absolutely brilliant to ride, but it won't get you the most street-cred at Starbucks, and that's the main complaint really.

The SP will sell a handful of units (and that's all they'll make) and it will sell predominately to the older crowd, enthusiasts, and dealership owners. I already know two dealership owners that are on the list.

The buying public see a spec sheet and MSRP and would go to the Streetfighter V2, which has more power (but not until way up in the revs) and is more serious about performance, but is frankly not as fun to ride. And that's fine, the SP isn't for them. It's for the few dozen riders that don't care if you're impressed with their bike and have 16k.
I agree, but I think that they will sell more than a handful.

For the average rider, Ohlins is more show than go, but the heart wants what the heart wants. The price delta more than covers an upgrade from standard to full Ohlins suspension. And they happen to throw in an upgrade to Stylema calipers, a nice livery, and a cool exhaust ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
To go straight to SP without ever having done an S, and not include lightweight forged or carbon wheels with the SP seems wrong. SPs need carbon wheels period. The S could have included adjustable Showa F/R, forged wheels, and striped liveries. The SP kicks it up with Ohlins, Stylemas, BSTs, "winter" livery. Boat anchor wheels should not be tolerated in 2022.
There is a much larger price delta for Streetfighter and Panigale SP’s than there is for the Monster SP. The Ducati-exclusive version of the BST RapidTEK’s cost more than the $3K difference in Monster models. I don’t think a $20K Monster SP would sell very well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
LOL how can anybody note upgraded brake rotors and Ohlins from that fuzzy foto. Come on bro. SF V4SP comes with BSTs. Everybody now understands lightweight wheels are the business. Instead of insane power levels why not try to beat physics in a more clever way? The V4SP has no engine differences from the S or the non S. It does not even come with upgraded exhaust. They gave it better suspension, better brakes, and lighter carbon wheels (which make the upgraded suspension work even better). They should have done the same for the Monster. Those wheels make a difference.
The Stylemas and aluminum flanges reduce unsprung mass by 2 lbs. While this isn’t rotational weight, yes, it will allow the upgraded forks to work better. The other SP models built around the 937 motor like the Hypermotard, etc. do not have carbon wheels (again, expense). There are only 5 Ducati models, of which only 3 are current (V4SP to be replaced by SP2), that have the BSTs you reference, and the least expensive one is $35k. I’ve been running those wheels for a few years now and agree they make a difference, but while I love them on the superbikes, I don’t think I’d pay for a Monster with them. Besides, those particular wheels only fit SSSA bikes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I disagree. Monster SP should come with lightweight wheels. I did not say full carbon wheels though. Forged at least. Providing factory forged wheels should be the bare minimum. The stock cast wheels are too heavy. So why call it an SP? Why not simply make it the S if you are not going to upgrade the wheels? Also, carbon wheels are not made only for SSA bikes. BST makes carbon wheels for dual sided swingarm bikes also. So does Dymag, so does Thyssen Krupp, so does Rotobox, etc.
I'd be down for some forged aluminum wheels. Forged magnesium would have added cost to the tune of $2K+. Either way, IIRC, the wheels on the standard 937 already went on a diet relative to the 821 wheels. Why an SP? This is not the same SP as on their V4 bikes -- the level of trim and performance is different as is the price delta. The Monster SP falls into the same level as all the other 937 motor SP bikes, and is priced accordingly. And I'll argue that $18K to $20K for a Monster SP would be a tough sell.

I am well aware that carbon wheels are available for non-SSSA bikes. But the wheel YOU used as an example (SF V4SP) is the (original) variation of BST's RapidTEK and that is only available for SSSA bikes at the moment, and it's not likely they would retool the rear wheel for a limited number of Monster SPs. AFAIK, the other carbon wheel manufacturers are not contracted with Ducati, and Thyssen Krupp AG no longer makes wheels as I understand, though I doubt it's because of the failures they had when they were providing wheels for the S1000RR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Disagree, you're not comparing comparable items.

Has anyone actually got an accurate weight on any of the wheels in question? I'd bet there's little to no difference in weight between the two. Rolling a casting doesn't make it a forging until a marketing guy says it's so. Castings have a more or less random grain structure, forging forces the aligned grain structure of a given billet to conform to the shape or the form it's forged into. Rolling can somewhat improve the mechanical properties of a casting but, this is mostly due to compression. It's still a casting, it just had one more fairly simple process applied only to the outer bead area of the wheel, still cast. A forging is exponentially better mechanically and can be engineered with lighter thinner cross sections everywhere yielding a lighter wheel. That costs, big, high end quality forgings will always be expensive, especially given the size of a wheel blank. Exotic materials like magnesium will add to that cost. Trying to make a Monster into a track or superbike is lame and is kind of why you never see Valentino Rossi taking to the grid on a naked bike.
Spoken like a materials engineer ;)

IIRC, the Monster 937 wheels went on a 3-4 lbs diet compared to the 821 wheels. The new calipers and rotors have dropped and additional 3 lbs. of unsprung mass (I previously erred in stating 2lbs.) from the Monster/+ weight. Add some Ohlins front and rear, and you already have quite the improvement even if the wheels were to stay the same. Back in the day (God I sound old, lol), saving one pound of unsprung mass was the same as reducing the 10 lbs. of sprung mass. To be fair, I don't know if advances in suspension tech has reduced this number somewhat. And the suspension has to be adjusted accordingly to get the most performance. I've found the weight difference between a properly designed cast aluminum and forged aluminum wheels to be not as great as one might think. But as you mentioned, expense is an entirely different story. And for Ducati's non-extreme performance SP bikes (Monster, SS, Hypermotard), the cost vs. benefit simply isn't there. Magnesium? Forget it as a material that work hardens, I imagine that it would have a difficult time getting road/DOT approval. In fact, I can only think of only two road legal bikes that came with forged magnesium wheels, and they are quite spendy and specials.

And what's wrong with the Monster as a track bike? Just because they aren't faired doesn't mean you can't have fun. And:

😜
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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Ha! Great pic, that's too funny, I stand corrected. I'll flog the life out of anything with an engine or motor, it's involuntary. As a guy who can only really keep one proper bike whole at a time, I'd track a girl's moped if that's what was running. Seems we agree that a wheel set that has to cost another 40% of the base price isn't worth the return on a bike of this pedigree and that the MT09SP wheel isn't really forged except in sales meetings. My pile has Marchesini wheels that are just as forged, I forged the "FORGED" decal so nobody thinks I'm lame... View attachment 229609
That's a "pile???" Clearly, we have different standards! Sweet ride, nicely done!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Mine's getting forged wheels this winter. Just Aluminum though, I'm not fancy.
Nothing wrong with forged aluminum, either in looks or performance. My 1098, which has seen mostly street duty until now, still has the stock forged aluminum wheels, and I don't find them lacking in any way. Aftermarket are even nicer.
 
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