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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good morning ladies and gents

I was really hoping that my first post wouldn’t be a cry for help but alas I must digress.

I recently [within the past 2 weeks] became the proud new owner of an ’01 Monster 600 Dark [it’s carbureted, as I’m sure most of you are well aware]
A very mint bike with only 4,500 miles on it.
The previous owner took pristine care of it as he was also the owner / proprietor of several Moto-GP teams

The relationship started out beautifully with the bike:
started right up [with choke]
after a couple mins of warm-up we were off and breaking in the brand new Dunlop’s provided by the previous owner.

However, within the past few days she has decided to quit on me and I can’t, for the life of me, get her to fire up.
She turns over freely, but just won’t ignite.

After reading over the posts here on this wonderful site, and my previous mechanical experience with other cars/motorcycles, I fixed the following ‘could be’ culprits:

- Bad Fuel: I had just [8 miles prior to] filled up with 89 Octane in an area of town that probably doesn’t sell a bunch of fuel other than 87…so I siphoned the tank / drained the carbs / replaced the fuel filter [which was mounted the wrong way and smashed up against the top of the timing belt housing] and filled her back up with good, regular 87.

- Bad Spark: the plugs looked fairly normal, but were on the verge of being classified as fouled so I went ahead a replaced them with new NGK’s [DPR9EIX-9] / gapped to .75mm [a compromise between the req’d. gap from Ducati on OEM plugs and the req’d. gap for the NGK’s]

- Bad Power Supply: as far as I can tell and was able to test, the battery is still good. It was fully charged / had plenty of cranking power / and holds a charge well

After taking care of all that, I thought I would have her back to normal, but I was wrong.
I tried to get her to fire up normally, and she decided she didn’t want to.

So I figured she may need a little coaxing and gave her a quick shot of starting fluid down the airbox
To my surprise she fired right up and consequently died after it burned off, which got me thinking "a fuel delivery problem."

After the starting fluid episode I decided to check the fuel feeding to the carbs.
I removed the plugs to see if they were wet from a crank / no start issue…nope, they were bone dry.
I opened the carb drain screws to see if fuel was getting to the carbs…nada, not a drop spilled out.
Checked the hoses for kinks…one looked to be bent over a bit too much, but definitely not pinching anything off, so I took care of it the best I could and even tried to start the bike with the tank upright to make any possible bends negligible, but she still wouldn’t fire up.

So I began thinking that it could be a fuel pump issue, but after looking over the wiring diagram [and it being a carb’d bike] I don’t think it has a fuel pump [if I’m wrong please correct me on this issue]
I don’t hear anything pressurizing on ignition, and fuel flows freely from the tank to the fuel filter, but doesn’t seem to be making its way to the carbs…is this a vacuum / pressurization issue?? How do I test for and fix a problem like that??

Any and all ideas are well appreciated.
Sidenote: I do have the Haynes Manual for Ducs, so if there is something that I overlooked or if there’s a page / instructions you could direct me to, that will also work.

Many thanks in advance for all your help…I’ve seen you guys [and gals] work your magic for others and hope you still have some left for the noob of the group.
 

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Welcome.
I'm pretty sure your bike has both a vacuum operated fuel pump and a vacuum operated shut off. The fuel pump is located on the r/h side of the engine. The shutoff is mounted just below the tank hinge. Neither item is 100% reliable with the shutoff being way less so. The other problem could be a clogged fuel filter. It is under the tank. Start at the top and work your way down. Verify fuel in this order. Filter, shutoff, pump. Let us know what you find.
 

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ducpainter said:
Welcome.
I'm pretty sure your bike has both a vacuum operated fuel pump and a vacuum operated shut off. The fuel pump is located on the r/h side of the engine. The shutoff is mounted just below the tank hinge. Neither item is 100% reliable with the shutoff being way less so. The other problem could be a clogged fuel filter. It is under the tank. Start at the top and work your way down. Verify fuel in this order. Filter, shutoff, pump. Let us know what you find.
yep, dp's got it, you do have both the pump and valve, check as he's got there, the valve tends to suck and the diaphragm in the pump tends to get messed up, see what you get
 

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+1 on both above. Also check vacuum hoses to shutoff & pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ok...so here's what I've got now:

I have removed both the shut off valve and the fuel pump.
I'm not sure if there is a better or more sophisticated way of testing these units, but I did a 'Breathalyzer' test on the vacuum ends of both units.
When I inhale and exhale on the vacuum end [besides getting a mouth full of unleaded fumes] I can hear both diaphragms move freely and if I put my fingers over both the inlet and outlet nipples I can feel the necessary suction and blow-by.

Could these units still be faulty even though the diaphragms move freely and seem to be moving air in the direction that the fuel should be flowing?
Or do I now assume that it's a vacuum issue?
If so how do I go about testing and subsequently fixing this problem?

Could this be a larger / internal issue if I'm not getting the vacuum pressure I need to move the fuel?

Thank you all for the responses thus far...I think we're getting close to getting her back on the road.
 

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Easiest way to test the pump is to disconnect hose at carbs.
Remove spark caps.
Have a container under open end of hose and run starter for a few seconds.
It should pulsate gas from the hose.

Do not open the pump until you know it`s faulty!
The diaphragms are sensitive & easy to damage or reassemble so it malfunctions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It's SO close...

I wasn't able to get to the feed tube at the carbs, so I took the hose off at the fuel pump that leads to the carbs.
Fuel came out of the nipple...so now at least I know fuel is flowing from the tank through the valve to the pump, and from the pump to the carbs.
I'm not sure how strong of a pulse there's supposed to be, but it would shoot the fuel vertically about an inch or so, which I figure is a fairly healthy measure. The only thing of note is that it wasn't 100% consistant with the strength of the pulse [it always pushed fuel through...it would just range from gurgling out to the 1in. shots...most were the 1in shots]

Now I've cleaned everything and let it air out.
Put both the valve and pump back in.
Got her a freshly charged battery.
Full choke.
Go to start:

SHE PUTTERS TO LIFE!!! But then subsequently dies.

3 or 4 tries later...nothing

5th try:
Comes to life again...lasts longer than the first, but only runs for about a second

3 or 4 more tries again...nothing

5th try:
Fires up again...this time lasting about two seconds.

She keeps going through this cycle of starting every 4th or 5th try and lasts a short while longer than the last...at least until I run the battery out.

Now my questions become:
Is this in relation to the fuel pump not being fully consistant in its pulsing?
If by chance it was bad gas...is the motor slowly cleaning some of this crap out and I need to keep at it until she stays started?
Could this just be air in the lines from the removal of the valve and pump and I need to keep going until all of the air is purged out of the system?

I'm a little stumped on this one, but I really appreciate all of your help thus far. Thank you.
 

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Is this in relation to the fuel pump not being fully consistant in its pulsing?
Hard to say 100% yes but it should pulsate like the 1" squirts you describe all the time.
Vacuum lines from carb inlets checked?
Tried to bypass filter to see if it starts/pulsates better? Clogged filter is not uncommon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
SHE LIVES!!! ;D

There's just one little issue left:
when I crack the throttle hard from idle there's a hesitation to rev up and what sounds like a 'gasping' coming from the area of the air box.

Has anyone encountered this before?

Seriously I can't thank you all enough. [clap]
You've all been a tremendous help, and if you ever find yourself in Austin let me know...drinks are on me.
 

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LouDogg said:
SHE LIVES!!! ;D

There's just one little issue left:
when I crack the throttle hard from idle there's a hesitation to rev up and what sounds like a 'gasping' coming from the area of the air box.

Has anyone encountered this before?

Seriously I can't thank you all enough. [clap]
You've all been a tremendous help, and if you ever find yourself in Austin let me know...drinks are on me.
congrats, sounds like it's now time for you to spend a bit of time tuning the carbs, may just need some new emulsion tubes, in any case, tuning is in order for sure along with a carb sync

you didn't mention you were in austin, come by the local boards and say hello, we've got a number of locals in the austin area that you could ride with [thumbsup]
 

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hiero said:
congrats, sounds like it's now time for you to spend a bit of time tuning the carbs, may just need some new emulsion tubes, in any case, tuning is in order for sure along with a carb sync

you didn't mention you were in austin, come by the local boards and say hello, we've got a number of locals in the austin area that you could ride with [thumbsup]
Those guys/gals can help you figure out any other issues you have too. ;D

There is also a small filter crammed into the fuel inlet at the carbs. I don't think it's an issue in this case, but it is worth being aware of.

I don't think you need emulsion tubes yet, but a synch will definitely help with the response.
BTW, don't spend too much time with hiero, before you know it he'll have you spending serious cash on mods. [laugh]
 

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Congrats!
What was the problem?
 

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ducpainter said:
Those guys/gals can help you figure out any other issues you have too. ;D

There is also a small filter crammed into the fuel inlet at the carbs. I don't think it's an issue in this case, but it is worth being aware of.

I don't think you need emulsion tubes yet, but a synch will definitely help with the response.
BTW, don't spend too much time with hiero, before you know it he'll have you spending serious cash on mods. [laugh]
I don't know about SERIOUS cash... maybe just some fun cash...
 

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hiero said:
I don't know about SERIOUS cash... maybe just some fun cash...
That is a matter of perspective. :p

Edit: I'm a little numb...............the only serious part is the magnitude. ;D
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok...I know this is an old post now, but I failed to answer some questions and since you all helped me out I figured it's the least I could do.

To be quite honest, I'm not entirely sure what it was...
But I'm guessing it was bad fuel, and a fuel pump / line issue that arose from stated issue.
Then I'm partly to blame as I don't think I pressurized the system thoroughly enough after draining all the old crap and putting new good fuel in.
Then the 'gasping' ended up being a kinked fuel line which came after I had reassembled everything and rode around for a bit.

But now I've got new problems that I'm trying to 'troubleshoot'...not very well mind you.

And it was Frank 'Voo Doo' Pate of Team Infinity:
www.TeamInfinityReplicast.net
 
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