Ducati Monster Motorcycle Forum banner

pc5 w/auto tune on 04 m1000s ie?

6K views 25 replies 7 participants last post by  gnarshread 
#1 ·
Hi guys,


Anyone out there successfully running a PC5 unit with auto tune on their older ducatis? Seems like the cost of a DP ecu flash, pc3, plus dyno time is more than the cost of an auto tune module and pc5.

Benefit: road tune to target afr, individual cylinder tuning

Negative: pc5 might not be compatable with older ignitions and computer systems. No idea here.

Also... does the PC for the ds1000 motors differ from the single spark pc modules?
 
#2 ·
The real negative is when you start piggybacking 2 or more secondary computers that their sole purpose in life is to try and trick the actual operating computer. Way too many threads on this forum from someone saying "my bike won't run". There will be 30 replies along the lines of "replace your battery, check the starter solenoid, put air in the tires, wax your chain, install a 14t sprocket, replace the flux capacitor, check your alternator, your valves are too tight, synch your throttle bodies, your voltage regulator is fried, and other good answers". A year later the OP will chime back in, "well it turned out that my fat duc manipulator, PCV5, Autotune, tune boy, and android bike tune app starting messing with the ECU, my mechanic ended up removing everything back to stock and now it runs again.

To me, that is reason enough to go with ECU flash. Sure it may be a little more expensive to do it right, but that's the thing, in the end it will be right. There are so many custom reflashes I don't see a benefit to using a power commander. IMO it's just one more electrical thing to go bad and frustrate you later.
 
#5 ·
I didn't have a great experience with just a flash alone on my s2r 800. Because the bike has no o2 sensors, it just ran extremely rich. We are at 3500 ft above sea level here and when traveling at close to sea level elevations,the bike just ran even worse. Bike is high compression, modded airbox, full exhaust, flywheel, mild port. Took a power commander 3 and lots of follow up on the dyno to get a real good tune.

The reason I look at auto tuner and pc5 as opposed to PC3 again, is the newer unit tunes cylinders individually and in real time. It does require the use of 2 wide band o2 sensors.
 
#6 ·
With ScanST (free), GuzziDiag (free), TunerPro (free) and an LC-2 from Innovate Motorsports ($150), you can data log your own bike, change the map and optimize the engine performance to your riding.
 
#7 ·
I don't know how to do that kinda stuff
 
#8 ·
After about one week of riding my 2012 1100evo I felt I would be selling it very quickly because of the drivability issues. Issues which some prefer to consider as being "character". Then, I decided to try the DP tune. It was better, but only marginally so. Being encouraged by the retune I took a chance and got a PCV and AutoTune. Very easy to install. After three years of riding it the grin factor is still present. I think it was the best money I've spent on a bike! No surging, can run at 3000 in third and then give it a gentle throttle with no lugging. Extremely smoother than any stock Monster we have ridden.

I've never had a problem this setup and remaps are so easy to do even a golfer could do it. I routinely do remaps to account for the seasonal fuel changes.

I added a PowerCommander quickshifter to it about a month ago and am still surprised at the performance. Also was easy to install and program. Just a couple clicks in the setup and it was good to go. Their recommended kill time was spot on for me.

I've just swapped out a CompsWorks can for a dual Akrapovic setup and will be remapping for it soon as the rains stop. It will be interesting to see what difference the AutoTune tells me about the Akra relative to the CW.

As usual, your results may vary. :)
 
#9 ·
Which auto tune unit did you use?

I am considering doing the same. Every fuel injected bike I have had I have found a power commander helps. The great thing with the autotune is that you get active tuning instead of a tune where the bike will only really run at its best at the exact temperature, humidity, and altitude the tune was written at. For most people the variation in performance is not noticeable but go from sea level to say 5,000 ft and you will notice a difference. I used to work in the industry and I may have drank the cool aid a bit to much however the marketing mumbo jumbo makes sense.
 
#11 ·
A power commander piggybacks off of your ecu and you can load pre-made maps, which have been made on a dyno by dynojet, yourself, or some random dude on a forum. I used to just throw all kind of maps at my last bike just to see what happened. It was quite interesting. In a nutshell, it alters your air fuel ratio mapping. There is a difference in which one you buy. With the V Air and Fuel, you can really make a mess by tuning each individual cylinder.

The auto tune takes the guess work out of tuning. It is a separate unit that is wired into the Power Commander. Instead of selecting the pre-made map for your 1198 with a two bros slip on and high flow air filter and accepting that it will be the best possible tune, the auto-tune comes with a wide band 02 sensor that analyzes exhaust gasses, sends that information to the power commander and the map you are using gets corrected as you ride so you are guaranteed you are getting the best possible mapping for any condition your riding in. I have heard from friends who run dynos that they actually run ever so slightly rich, and that can be changed, but its a bit of a safety feature as you don't want to lean out your bike to make another 1/8th of a HP.

The big issue I'm having though is there are 2 kinds of auto tunes. one for all applications, which has one 02 sensor and another with 2 specifically designed for HD's. They need this as the back cylinder always runs hotter. For guys like us it makes sense to try and use the V twin one as more information allows for more refined tuning. The issue is no one seems to have a solid answer as which one to go for. Going to an HD product for refined performance does sound counterproductive.
 
#12 ·
The previous owner of my bike installed Arrow exhaust and removed the o2 sensor so I would have to add one in I suppose. Apparently he also had the bike tuned and each cylinder mapped, but when I bought it last week, it was running like ****. Surging when you start it up, then it would die if you didnt roll the throttle. Then when you roll the throttle the RPM would surge again. He also had an unlocked ECU installed, and this begs the question; why would you need a power commander also if you have an unlocked ECU? His was a PC3 and I removed this and installed my PC5 from my seven-fiddy. The only way I can get the bike to idle somewhat stable is if I reset the TPS from the power commander. I should look at the auto tune device....
 
#13 ·
Oh dude! That sounds like a mess. I think the point of a power commander is you don't have to get your ECU mapped or unlocked. You have a lot going on there. It sounds like the previous owner maybe tuned for top end and didn't care about the rest of the power curve maybe? It happens a lot in the car scene with guys who just want dyno queens. I'm not a motorcycle whisperer but maybe try running just the stock, unadulterated ECU and see where that gets you. If things smooth out and rides well, hook up a power commander and see where the stock maps for the Arrow exhausts get you. Its a pity about the 02 sensor. It could just be a bung screwed into the hole? If you do get an auto tune, the kit comes with a bung you can weld in. But I would get the bike running smoothly first before throwing more factors into the equation.
 
#15 ·
Will someone get this guy a beer! ^ He needs one.

Damn man! it sounds super weird. Its as if the guy wanted to run 2 separate maps at once. If a tune is good 2 must be better right? I'm thinking if the 02 sensor delete is common, you may be able to find a used sensor and other bits for cheaper than going new. I think you are doing the right thing by going back to a stock set up. It'll give you a good base to work from.
 
#16 ·
So I was just told yesterday that the bike does not have a Microtec ECU now, it has an unlocked factory ecu. it did have a Microtech ECU at one time, but that's a long story. So at this point I'm just going to keep it simple and just get an auto tune module and plug it into my Power Commander 5 and call it a day.
 
#17 ·
On my s2r800, i had to flash the ecu to allow tuneability below 3500rpm. I have a pc3 on it and it runs pretty good. I am going to mod my ds1000 monster a lot and dont want to keep dyno tuning for ever mod i put on. The auto tuner seems to make the most sense with a pc5
 
#20 ·
What happened if you tried to tune it below 3500rpm? The bike ran like **** with a map loaded in it that had values leaned back in lower rpm range, but the base map fixed it.
 
#18 ·
If you're going to use the AutoTune I suggest you get the version with two O2 wide band sensors. If you have one cylinder way rich and the other one way lean, AutoTune with one sensor won't fix this, just average the two. Ideally you want each cylinder to be tuned.
As screwed up as your bike sounds I would use GuzziDiag Reader and back up a copy of your existing map and see what you actually have.
If nothing there raises a red flag, then install the PC-V and AutoTune and let it work. But make sure you have a 30 day return guarantee. If the previous owner really did mess up with the ECU even PC-V can't fit that.
 
#19 ·
I believe this man speaks the truth!

Do you have experience using the 2 sensor setup? It makes sense to go that route and that's what I want to do but I haven't come across anyone one has experience using it or any data to back it up.

Also! Make sure before you install it, that everything will fit. companies don't like getting stuff that has been installed and taken back off returned. Most companies will consider it used and you will have to live with it. Believe me! I used to have to tell people that the exhaust they sent back has a tiny scratch on it and I cant accept it back. Even if it wont fit your bike.
 
#21 ·
So I installed an Autotune module a local shop loaned me to see how it worked. I've loaded a map for the 2004 M1000sie since its the closest bike and configuration I could find. At first I loaded a base map, zeroed out and the bike ran well but started surging and having performance problems while at highway speed when accelerating. Dangerous **** that would make it lurch or struggle; like a fat chick that had been starved for days and had a hamburger dangled in front of her.

I decided to load another map, for the same year and make/model, but one with DP racing slip-ons and Fast By Ferracci AirPower filter with airbox lid removed. That ran MUCH better, and I haven't noticed any problems yet. I do suspect it is running very rich though, I've attached the map in case anyone is interested. My bike's config is listed below also. Autotune is detected and enabled, the only issue is, there are no values except for 0's in the Target AFR tables. I cant do any Autotuning with it like this; does anyone have any suggestions on what I should enter for rpm and throttle %? I left 0% alone, and 13.2 in most columns (screenshot attached). I haven't had a chance to actually ride it yet and let the Autotune do its trim work, but I'm interested to see if anyone has any suggestions.

2007 Monster S2R1000
TPO Beast Kit
Arrow slip-on cans
Magnecore wires
NGK copper plugs
Flashed ECU (previous owner), no idea what for
 

Attachments

#23 ·
No, I watched the autotune video, but this one I havent seen. I've got this unit as well, ill check it out.
I wish I didnt live in a residential neighborhood, I'd take the bike out and wack the throttle wide open to set the TPS. I'm gonna check this out though. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
#25 ·
Haha, that would look pretty funny to someone who didnt know bikes. Is there a step by step procedure for this? I might do it this weekend.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top