New Air Cooled DS engines do not measure up - BMW kicks Ducati ass! - Page 4 - Ducati Monster Forums: Ducati Monster Motorcycle Forum
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 01:12 PM

 
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Re: New Air Cooled DS engines do not measure up - BMW kicks Ducati ass!

After reading your response you answered it best.

BMW = workhorse lump
Ducati = strong sporting heritage

It is like comparing Cold Steel to Fire.

Ducati doesn't build bikes to win shootouts. *BMW has to overcome their perception as a workhorse lump. *BTW I am a strong believer that the numbers don't mean squat. *90% of all motorcycle owners can't use 60HP let alone 130HP! * It's just Hype for all those who don't flog them at the track.

BTW I've owned several Beemers and the only one I truly miss was my 73' R75/5 because it was my first bike!



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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 02:34 PM

 
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Re: New Air Cooled DS engines do not measure up - BMW kicks Ducati ass!

True I agree with you 100%.

-ghost

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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 04:49 PM
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Re: New Air Cooled DS engines do not measure up - BMW kicks Ducati ass!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperheadMonster
RECAP:

* I am not interested in bike weight and what is wrapped around the engine, suspension, gearbox etc -I want to discuss purely the engine
* Yes both engines are air/oil cooled and 2 valve (BMW is not 4 valve as someone said)
* and I am intending comparing a superbike twin engine with a jap inline4
* To me it is surprising that Ducati with strong sporting heritage make a milee tha does not measure up BMW's workhorse lump

For the air/oil cooled engine fans (I am one) it is dissapointing that the pace of progress is not competitive!
FOR REFERENCE:
This is an ineffective comparison for the following reasons:
Its a complaint that the Ducati "1100" doesn't make the same power as a BMW "1200".
You are comparing plantains and bananas. The 1078cc Duc is nearly 100cc's smaller than the 1170cc BMW.

I find it silly to expect the Ducati to compare when its not bringing the same displacement to the contest. For its displacement, perhaps it does not make enough relative horsepower when compared to the BMW, but I'd say it looks like its not too far off. As I recall the BMW engine feel isn't half as sporty or "peppy" as the Duc.
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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 05:26 PM

 
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Re: New Air Cooled DS engines do not measure up - BMW kicks Ducati ass!

If you want to compare apples to apples, here is the details of my 2004 R1100S which is a Sport-tourer just like the MTS (despite what BMW claims):

Oilhead-4Valve per Cylinder, Dual-Spark, 1085cc
459 lbs dry
98 bHp
71 ft-lb
11.3:1 compression
58.2" wheelbase
0-60 in 4.0sec
11.94sec @ 113mph 1/4 mile
4.7 gallon fuel tank

I love my ducs...and I "like" my beemer...nuff said

Micko
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 05:33 PM
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Re: New Air Cooled DS engines do not measure up - BMW kicks Ducati ass!

Looks to me that the Ducati 1100 motor would be SPOT ON in the comparison with this motor, a tick less HP, a tad more ft.lbs.
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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 06:03 PM Thread Starter

 
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Re: New Air Cooled DS engines do not measure up - BMW kicks Ducati ass!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOmemphis
FOR REFERENCE:
This is an ineffective comparison for the following reasons:
Its a complaint that the Ducati "1100" doesn't make the same power as a BMW "1200".
You are comparing plantains and bananas. The 1078cc Duc is nearly 100cc's smaller than the 1170cc BMW.

I find it silly to expect the Ducati to compare when its not bringing the same displacement to the contest.* For its displacement, perhaps it does not make enough relative horsepower when compared to the BMW, but I'd say it looks like its not too far off.* *As I recall the BMW engine feel isn't half as sporty or "peppy" as the Duc.
I not talking straight output but specific output The BMW makes 104hp/litre & the new DSmill makes 88hp/litre while specific torque is near identical. Like JJGeo pointed out it could be factor of 4 valve versus 2 valve.

I expect Ducati to better it given its racing heritage - just a observation that the aircooled mill is not market competitive like the water cooled mill and has not seen similar development through the years.

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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 06:24 PM

 
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Re: New Air Cooled DS engines do not measure up - BMW kicks Ducati ass!

I'm no engineer, but a guess would be that the boxer configuration lets you get away with 4-valves/cylinder and a 12.5:1 compression ratio. Putting the heads out in the slipstream makes for much more efficient cooling. Do the same thing to an L-twin and that rear cylinder isn't going to be very happy.

But who here wants to turn their engine sideways anyway? If you did you'd buy the beemer or a guzzi.
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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duc_fan View Post
Yeah, even the 2003 R1100S (1085 ccs) had 98 HP and something like 77 ft-lbs.

But I'm shoppin' for a Duc 'cause they've got more soul than the R1100S I test rode (well, a handful of other reasons, but none material for here). It was B-E-A-utiful, especially in Ice Blue Metallic (imagine metallic silver, with a hint of blue metal flakes). And it rode, well, like a BMW. It's gotta be one of the best engineered machines on the road. As an engineer myself, that's appealling.

But what do I really prefer the *feel* of? The Desmo! Especially with open pipes on the 900+cc bikes, it's like you can feel every cylinder hit in your chest. What's the saying? "You 'start' any other bike; you bring a Ducati to life."

But alas, building a "living" machine doesn't necessarily sell. They need to keep the spirit of their bikes, the feel, the subjective lustiness, and ALSO compete in the HP department, or at least have the same specific power output (HP/cc) as other twins.
Hi Duc_Fan,

Hey I agree the engineering in any R series BMW is quality and the ease of tuning a pure joy to work on. However, I have a great R1100S and a S2R1000 monster, the monster wins hands down with power delivery at any throttle position. Also the BMW quality control is as iffy as the Italians, the early R1100 series were renowned for the lack on spline lube which killed my driveshaft and trans output shaft and clutch.

While I have had 200+kmh with my GF on the back with the R1100S, I know that that I only pillion a few times a year whereas every time i'm on the Duc my smile begins at ignition start and lats past ignition kill.

So, the R1100S is a great highway tourer but at low speed the telelever front end is too heavy to compete with the Duc and only becomes responsive from 3k+ RPM.

Sean
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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 08:26 PM
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Sean--
You are aware that you just replied to a thread where the last post was more than ten years ago...right?
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