modern monster belt change.. guide in progress - Page 2 - Ducati Monster Forums: Ducati Monster Motorcycle Forum
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 11:41 AM
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1) I set either cylinder at TDC by looking inside the spark plug hole with a small flashlight and seeing when the piston is at its peak. I know it's on the compression stroke because I can feel air being pushed out through the spark plug hole. It's worked on 5 valve services so far.

2) I leave the belts on because I turn the motor using the rear wheel while the transmission is in a higher gear, like 3rd or 4th. Just make sure the spark plugs are out.

3) for the valve service, I don't lock the cams because I have to incrementally turn the motor to move the rocker arm out of the way. For the belt service, you can lock either cam and the other will be in place automatically. The locking tool only goes in the hole when both cams are where they should be. Test this by placing the tool in one cylinder's hole and turning the motor until the tool goes in all the way, then remove the tool and place it in the other cam, and you'll see that that's when it goes in all the way as well. So, I just lock one cam. You can also use a 5 or 6mm (?) allen key in the other hole in order to lock them both.

Don't forget to adjust the belts' tension with the belt gear loosened. There are 3 screws that loosen the outer ring of the gear. That way the tension is equal on the top and bottom run of the belt.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-13-2018, 09:59 PM
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Thanks for the tips, I think I am getting it. Checked the top cylinder today. After the air burst out of the spark plug hole, i am then feeling with a long hex key for when it is at tdc. Looks like my opening clearances are both at roughly .085, so out of spec. The closing ones were at .035 and .045, so those are good. Will wait to do the belts till after I replace the shims.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-14-2018, 10:25 AM
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Ducati revised the belt tension a long time back 2009.

All models:
Streetfighter, 1198, 1098, 1098R 999, 998, 996, 916, 848, 749, M1100, MS4, MS4R, MS4RS, ST4, SC, ST3, ST2, SS1000 HYM 1100, MTS 1100,MTS 1000, MS2R 1000, M696, MS2R 800, M620, M400, M695, SS800, MTS 620

New Belts:
110 Hz +/- 5, Horizontal and Vertical *

Used Belts:
90-100 Hz +/- 5, Horizontal and Vertical *

* Please note, these values may be inaccurate on previous Ducati Technical Data posters and service manuals. Data listed above should be considered the new standard and supersedes all previous bulletins and documentation. Please print and post this bulletin to be displayed with the most current Ducati service poster.

Sincerely,

Ducati North America
Service Department
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-14-2018, 04:06 PM
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I just use the 5mm allen key method on the horizontal belt and a 6mm key on the vertical. Hasn't failed me yet.

Not trying to sway you from using the Hz method. Just offering another option.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2018, 12:02 PM
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When replacing the timing belts - DO NOT loosen the three camshaft retaining screws. These are only to be loosened if you intend to dial in the cams with a degree wheel and dial indicator.
Loosening them without checking the cam phase will only result in the cams no longer being in the proper place and will result in a possible loss of power - hard to start - bad idle quality - unable to synchronize the throttle bodies.
The cam locking tool is only for placing the cams in the proper approximate position and to hold it there while you change the belt. Once the new belt is in position - remove the cam lock tool and proceed to adjust the belt tension.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-15-2018, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Ducati View Post
When replacing the timing belts - DO NOT loosen the three camshaft retaining screws. These are only to be loosened if you intend to dial in the cams with a degree wheel and dial indicator.
Loosening them without checking the cam phase will only result in the cams no longer being in the proper place and will result in a possible loss of power - hard to start - bad idle quality - unable to synchronize the throttle bodies.
The cam locking tool is only for placing the cams in the proper approximate position and to hold it there while you change the belt. Once the new belt is in position - remove the cam lock tool and proceed to adjust the belt tension.
I've never heard of this, unless we're thinking of a different part. If you don't loosen the cam pulley rollers, the tension will be greater on one side of the belt pulley.

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/42-monst...ervations.html
"These measurements were also done as per the Ducati service manual which states the cams be locked and the rollers loose to give an even tension both sides of the pulley. "

Last edited by 1UglyBastard; 03-15-2018 at 04:04 PM.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-16-2018, 03:03 PM
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You can rest assured when I say that the method you are using makes absolutely no sense at all - the post you had followed is full of errors and not one of them attempted to prove it by displaying the service manual page on cam belt and timing.

By loosening the three screws you mentioned - you are in fact separating the camshaft from it`s drive gear and now there is no possible way to be sure that the cam is going to stay in it`s proper position. ( don`t forget that the cam gear follows the lower drive gear - the cam is free to turn when the timing belt is removed ). when you tighten the belt - the cam gear will automatically align itself to have equal tension on both sides of the belt. And since the cam had been loosened earlier - you now have a tight belt but a cam that is not in proper phase. These cams timing have a maximum variance of 3 degrees at the crankshaft ( that is only 1.5 degrees at the cam)
After designing engines for Ducati for over a decade - I think I can be sure as to what I am saying and I have every single piece of service data at my disposal to easily prove to anyone what I am stating.
No Offense - But now I totally understand why your bike is hard to start. If you need any technical data - communicate with me in private.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 07:55 AM
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The 3 bolts only loosen the outer ring of the sprocket, not the cam. I can take video or pics to show you what I'm talking about. Plus the cam is locked in place with my tool when I make that adjustment, so only the teeth move, and the way Ducati designed it, the teeth are only allowed to move a little bit. I'll see if I can find a diagram that shows what I'm talking about. I believe this system only exists for the 09 and up models.

Either way, the cams are locked in place, so they can't move out of time. They are perfectly left in place like in the factory, because, again, they are locked in the only position they are allowed to be locked, which is in time with the piston/crankshaft.

My 09 696 had the starting problem before I learned to change belts and do valve servicing. I do thank you for offering your input.

Last edited by 1UglyBastard; 03-18-2018 at 08:25 AM.
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-18-2018, 08:24 AM
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Whitey66 mentions it in the 3rd post and posts the diagram later in this thread
https://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/...imensions.html

Last edited by 1UglyBastard; 03-18-2018 at 08:27 AM.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 03-19-2018, 09:10 AM
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The three bolts you mentioned actually release the timing belt pulley from the camshaft hub.(loosening them permits you to turn the cam either direction for a total of 8 crankshaft degrees rotation).
The camshaft locking tool is only used to place the cam in the ballpark position (it has a variance due to the camshaft are often used in different engines that have taller or shorter cyl/cyl head and gasket heights requiring different length timing belts.)
The locking tool is to be removed once the belts are installed and before the tension is set. ( if the three screws are loosened - you must do a Cam Timing procedure )
below are pages from our service manual for your bike. Read carefully.
Note - none of our cams are locked or fixed in place permanently - they are all adjustable by loosening the three bolts - they are set at the factory until anyone loosens the three bolts - upon doing so you have upset the cam timing.!!!
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Last edited by Mister Ducati; 03-19-2018 at 09:16 AM. Reason: addition
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