Ducati Monster Motorcycle Forum banner

Let's Talk Batteries

31K views 31 replies 17 participants last post by  dankatz 
#1 ·
So I'm not finding very clear answers on a few battery questions I had so I thought I would start one thread to answer a few questions. I ride a 2012 Monster 1100 evo and it needs a new battery, so my questions are sort of focused around that, but I would like to have general answer on this thread for anyone else.

Lead Batteries
First the OEM lead battery, the Yuasa YT12B-BS. Is this is specific model? I've seen 215 CCA (our OEM) and a lower CCA - was the lower one mislabeled? The dimensions I'm seeing are: 6" long, 2 3/4" wide, 5 1/8" high. It has a 1 year warranty, and ones I'm seeing online ship with the acid you must fill it with.

What other Ducati models share this battery? Online vehicle part matchers do not seem to be very accurate, with Amazon saying there is only 1 battery on the entire site that would fit.

What other lead (aka cheap) batteries have people had luck with? What is complete junk and is to be avoided? What kind of life is everyone getting out of their lead batteries (and is it on a tender every night, or what).

I'm using the Battery Tender Jr 12V and having luck with it. My battery is pretty much shot (12.4V at best on the tender, 12.3-12.1 off), but I can get it started with it plugged in.

Lithium Batteries
I see lots of folks going with the Shorai. There are also lithium batteries by Ballistic and Battery Tender. Apart from the obvious weight savings, the life is supposed to be longer. What kind of life are we getting out of lithium batteries?

There are specific lithium battery tenders on the market. Could someone explain the difference between the two tenders? Can a lithium tender be used on a lead battery daily? Should a lithium battery be on a tender nightly, even if it is lithium specific?

Sorry, lot's of questions, I'm new to Ducatis. Hopefully this will get some traction for anyone else who has been wondering these things.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
Hi Zissou, I am not an expert BUT I have already made the swap from the stock Yuasa to the Shorai Lithium-Iron-Phospate in my 2013 Monster 1100 EVO ABS

The stock battery is the specific Yuasa model YT12B-BS. The one I pulled out is branded Yuasa, not Ducati, and has that model number written on it. On the battery itself, specs are 10.5 Ah, and 210 CCA. As far as I can tell, dimensions are as per their website at http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.php?bID=B168&vID=6505 although they quote 215 CCA... slight change in manufacturing maybe?

I ditched the battery to try to improve cold starting, I was getting high 12, low 13 volt on rest but it needed to be plugged into the battery tender (I had a battery fighter junior) EVERY NIGHT. Bear in mind that the immobiliser, computer clock etc will draw power when the bike is off. The battery was 2 years old.

By the way, based on previous purchases of new lead acid batteries, they ship with the acid separate and you have to fill them and do a long initial charge. Often the dealer will do this for you.

If you wanna replace, you need to match the size (equal or smaller all around) and polarity. Some posters have gone for much higher spec batteries which might be taller, but I wanted to ensure that all cabling would fit like stock.

I put the Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 in as a replacement. Specs are here: http://shoraipower.com.au/store/products/lfx18a1-bs12/

This battery is slightly smaller all around than the Yuasa, but the Shorai arrives with a bunch of padding you can cut up to make it fit. FYI I did find the battery ended up a little wobbly as it sits up higher in the battery tray on top of the padding. I have had no troubles with it rattling or anything like that. The padding lifts the battery up so that the terminals end up in the stock position.

Anyway, there is much info on the Shorai web site... short version is that it's hard to compare given the very different chemistry BUT the battery is rated as equivalent to 18 Ah, 270 CCA. Shorai suggests it will crank like a lead acid battery MUCH higher rated (like 400 CCA plus). The battery weighs like 2 pounds as against 7 for the Yuasa !

I believe the lithium specific tenders don't have float charge on them like normal ones and they ABSOLUTELY don't have high voltage desulphation modes. You can actually use a normal charger to charge the Lithium BUT
* the Shorai arrives mostly charged, you can just go for a ride after installation to top it up
* you need to pull the charger off after the charge - ie, DONT use the float charging
* my tender wouldnt charge the Shorai - the Shorai was already too well charged

In fact, the local Shorai agent advises just ride the bike at least once every couple MONTHS (!) to keep it charged. I ride weekly summer or winter so I have NEVER charged the battery since I installed it! Anyone wanna buy a cheap battery tender?

I dunno if lithium tenders work on lead batteries - FYI the Shorai has a special charger (if you need it; I don't own one) with a special 4-pin plug, so it would not plug in to anything else anyway.

ALSO: you can also upgrade the starter circuit cables with the kit from Motoelectric, I have done this also. Details here: http://www.motolectric.com/products/hicap.detail.html For me, this was quite an involved installation but rewarding. I could provide some tips maybe later.

and finally: with all of the above the bike will start, from cold, 0.5 seconds every time. Even in Winter (though it only gets down to about 5 deg C here).
with NO external battery charging EVER

PS> I do have one more trick that's helping to get reliable cold starts on my bike. After I switch on, and the fuel pump runs its priming cycle, I give it another prime - I hit the start button with the kill switch set to OFF for 2/3 seconds. Then set the kill switch to RUN, then it will light up first time every time.
 
#3 ·
enliven - this is great stuff, thanks!

I just placed an order for an aftermarket battery from batterysharks.com. Claims to be a direct replacement for ours. $26 sale price, plus another $9 to ship it. Crazy cheap compared to the Yuasa, but that Yuasa is super overpriced imho. I'll update later on if this was worth it or not, but if it doesn't damage anything and I get a riding season out of it then I'll say it's worth it.

Here's the link while it's still active http://www.batterysharks.com/Yuasa-YT12B-BS-p/yt12b-bs_m12-10-125-k.htm
It's made by SigmasTek. Had a 4.8/5 review on Amazon on about 10 reviews which seems promising.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Find a R/C website and ask about lithium batteries. You will learn more than you ever wanted to know. The batteries in my 700 size Heli would probably start my diesel F250 on a cold day.

They have had a bad wrap in the past for catching on fire, but those are LiPo batteries and not the LiFe version used in auto applications.

What they are is intolerant of abuse. You can use a standard charger in a pinch (that's what the alternator is doing the whole time you're riding after all.) but a standard charger will not balance the 4 cells. That circuitry is what makes a lithium charger different from a standard. If a lithium battery discharges much lower than 3.2v/cell....it's toast. I don't know for sure but I suspect there is a failsafe on the batteries out there to prevent this. It's also not good to store them fully charged, (4.2volts/cell) as this can lead to reduced life. The better R/C chargers have a storage mode on them that brings the battery to 3.7volts/cell and balances them.

As for a tender, I don't see why you would ever need one. Maybe in northern Minnesota where you can only ride 3mos out of the year. As for lifespan in our application pretty much forever. What kills lithium batteries is the charge/discharge cycle. I can fully charge 2) 22.2V 5000 mil amp batteries @ 20A in about 10min. Put them in the heli and fly for 6min, the batteries will be as discharged as they can safely get and too hot touch. Let them cool for a few min and repeat. Even under that kind of abuse I get 100-150 charge cycles out of a pair. Cranking the bike and being topped off even if you rode everyday is in no way straining their capabilities.

They will hold a charge seemingly forever, and discharge at about the rate of a capacitor (but not quite). That's why the bikes start so much better.

The only downside after you learn what you have and how to care for it is the additional cost. @ $189.00, the Shorai is more expensive than a brand name LA battery, but not my much. And tell me how else you can loose 7#'s of weight high on the bike for $50-$75!

I will be buying one as soon as the battery in mine is done, and probably sooner.
 
#6 ·
Hi enliven, I am now experiencing the headlight off when starting my Monster. I first noticed it when going home after my shift. THe bike did not start on the first 2 attempts. . Turned off the ignition key and turned it back on after a few seconds and I noticed the headlight was off with the high beam indicator on in the instrument cluster. THE bike started and I rode home without headlights. PLugged in the tender and the next day the bike started normally with the lights on. THIS pattern repeats itself. . The battery is 3 years old. Is this a battery issue?
 
#10 ·
I have a Shorai battery installed on my M1200 since the OEM battery died of "excesive use". So I changed to a lithium battery since it holds the charge better during inactive periods. Yes, it's lighter and smaller but very easy to install and it cranks up fast everytime like enliven said.

I read somewhere that the average lead battery looses around 1% of its charge everyday and a lithium battery looses around 10% over a year, even if it's exagerated a lithium battery is a good option if you have to keep your bike in the garage for long periods. Regardless, I try to take the bike out once a week to keep it charged, just to be sure.
 
#11 ·
Grave digging (4 years later) update here:

I ended up purchasing that $35 SigmasTek battery 4 years ago and it STILL works. I use a battery tender jr, but still - a direct replacement that has lasted 4 years for only $35!
It's getting a bit weak now, generally at about 12.1 V when I turn the bike on and read the voltage, but hey it still starts it up.

Here's the link, they still sell it for about the same price. If this one dies I'm def just going to get another one - can't beat that value.
https://www.batterysharks.com/SigmasTek-ST12B-4-p/st12b-4_m12-10-125-k.htm
 
#12 ·
Annual update. Battery still working but it struggled to start up yesterday. Going to be looking for another replacement soon, but shoot I'd be hard pressed to get anything else because that link above still works. $35 battery made it 5 years; can't beat that ROI.
 
#13 ·
Yes, that’s pretty good life. Using a battery tender does extend the useful life. Without it you would probably have already replaced the battery. I have all my bikes on a tender, so they always start , but then I have run into other problems like the dash going crazy that I traced back to low voltage/ bad battery.
 
#15 ·
Spring is here and that same cheap battery just started the bike again. It's taking a bit longer to do it, but I'm still in awe at how long this thing as lasted; coming up on 6 years on a $35 battery. Maintained with a battery tender jr.

Voltage when the bike first turns on is 11.7, but once the headlight cuts off it climbs up to 12.2-12.3 and is ready to start.
New issue when that happens though is now occasionally the headlight will not turn back on (low beam). I can turn the bike off and back on then the headlight works. No idea what that is about, could be due to the battery having some weird lower voltage issue, could be the HID bulb in there is a little wonky, could be wiring (had a bad connection on one of my aftermarket turn signals last fall, just came undone and needed to have new connectors crimped in, easy fix). I'll be checking wiring as a new spring project.

Just wanted to give the update on the cheap battery saga; it keeps on tickin!
 
#16 ·
I don't know why the headlight doesn't turn on.

I wanted to comment that the battery tender makes a big difference. I have a 2007 Honda VFR which I purchased used in 2010. In 2012, after keeping it outside for a couple of years and riding through the Boston winter I had to replace the original battery. I don't remember what I purchased, maybe a YUASA. It still works great 9 years later. I purchased a house with a garage in 2012 so the bike has been on a tender when not ridden. It has a number of potential drains - an old GPS, heated grips, etc...but it starts no matter what. I think this is all thanks to the battery tender. The Monster 1100evo has always been hard to start no matter what battery is inside.
 
#19 ·
Glad the cheap battery worked out for you! I generally buy Yuasa as they seem to consistently last longer. I’ve bought off brand batteries and neither one lasted a year, even with one being on a tender! I also bought a bike with a Shorai battery installed. It was a 1098 Streetfighter. At the time I had three bikes and the Streetfighter already had high miles so I didn’t ride it much. After a month of sitting in the garage, not on a tender, the bike would fire right up every time. It was amazing. I’m currently in the market for an M1100 and after hearing about the hard starting I will no doubt be putting a Shorai in there, despite the price tag.
 
#20 ·
Whichever battery you choose to use, you will get a longer 'usable lifespan' out of it if you upgrade the starter cables.

The standard 8-gauge cables used by Ducati are the same gauge used by most of the other manufacturers because they are light and cheap and 'just' get the job done (especially during the warranty period when everything is new and fresh).
However the capacity of the 8-gauge cables is marginal for the current going through them and a lot of resistance is created.

Upgraded cables will result in less power lost as resistance, meaning that a higher percentage of the power that is stored in the battery is available to turn the starter motor. Which ultimately means your battery will be able to turn your bike over faster and start it quicker than it could before.

Upgrading to 4-gauge cables is considered ideal however even going half-way to 6-gauge cables is beneficial. Another solution is to 'double-up' two 8-gauge cables which is almost as good as one 4-gauge but gives a 'figure-8' shape rather than a big fat 'O' shape and can fit through some narrow spaces better. (But electrical properties concerned with 'skin currents' mean that although the 2x skinny 8-gauge cables work much better than 1x8 gauge, the fatter 4-gauge cable works slightly better again).

Most of the aftermarket cable kits contain three 4-gauge cables;
1/ From +ve Battery terminal to starter solenoid,
2/ from solenoid to starter motor,
3/ from starter motor to -ve battery terminal.
For best results all three need replacing, since the overall current flow is restricted by the section with the highest restriction.

I first came across this topic on the Triumph RAT forum, where a bunch of early 1050 Triples suffered sprag-clutch failure (the centrifugal clutch that engages/disengages the starter motor) which was attributed to insufficient cranking power to turn the engine over and causing backlash on the sprag. A bunch of electrical whiz-kids did the sums and found the solution to increase cranking power from the same battery. The first few pioneers individually bought all the components and made their own ugraded cables, but soon enough 'commercially available' kits were on offer.

Ive now upgraded a Triumph 1050, a Monster 1100evo and a 796. All of them crank quicker and start faster. There are many people on this forum who have also done it, in all cases (I have seen) they report good results.

cheers Keef
 
#22 ·
Hi everyone. New member and new to Ducati, but have been riding and wrenching for 30 years and working professionally in the industry for the last 5 years. I’d like to share my professional experience on the motorcycle battery topic. First and foremost, around 90% of ALL major motorcycle manufacturers use Yuasa for their supplier of factory batteries. Ducati, Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki and on and on all use Yuasa batteries in and from the factory. So, whether you buy an OEM factory battery, or an aftermarket Yuasa battery, chances are that it is the EXACT same battery. And to the best of my knowledge, every Ducati (that I have looked up) all take a YT12B-BS.

In terms of aftermarket batteries, you absolutely get what you pay for. So, while that $35 battery will get you back on the road right now, I’d be willing to bet you another $35 that it doesn’t make it 2 full seasons. Auto Zone, Advance Auto, Batteries Plus and Ever Start (from Walmart) are all absolute junk and you are just rolling dice hoping you don’t get stranded. This is because of the low amount of lead used, and the fact that it is recycled lead full of contaminants that break down and kill the life of the electrolytes. With that being said, Fire Power from Western Power Sports and Parts-Unlimited both offer a very high quality house branded battery, that is very comparable to Yuasa in terms of quality and reliability, but for roughly 30-40% cheaper. I’ve never had to warranty either of those battery brands.

As far as lithium batteries go, Shorai is king. As someone mentioned, early versions of lithium ion batteries were quite unstable and very sensitive to voltage irregularities and shock. Most companies have gotten past that now, but only a handful of manufacturers offer a battery that is long living and reliable. Again, Fire Power has been knocking it out of the park with house branded Lithium Ion batteries and even feature a built in voltage tester. While Li-Io batteries are overkill for most people, they can be beneficial to some. Personally I ride a lot and bring my batteries inside for the winter, so I just need a good quality battery, and a traditional AGM lead battery works just fine for my needs.

Now, Battery Tenders. If your bike ever sits for 4 weeks or longer at a time, you absolutely need a tender, and it WILL give you more life out of your battery. If you live in a place with a snowy winter it is almost mandatory to have a tender. You’ll here lots of different methods of using them, but this is the breakdown on how to utilize a tender to its fullest potential and maximize the life of your battery:

If the bike is in storage, plug the battery into your battery tender for 48-72 hours every 3-4 weeks, and leave it unplugged otherwise. This will make sure that the battery is in a constant state of charge and slight discharge, which is what makes a lead acid battery happiest. If you have a security system or other electrical accessories that draw on the battery, plug it in for 24-48 hours every 2 weeks.

Again, this is just my professional and hands on experience of riding and wrenching on motorcycles since age 13, and being a service manager and parts guy at very reputable dealerships for the last 5 years. I hope this helps clear some misinformation up. Cheers.
 
#30 ·
Fire Power has been knocking it out of the park with house branded Lithium Ion batteries
Just to correct a common confusion here. Lithium Ion are the types of batteries that power small electronics, like smartphones and laptops. That's the ones you hear on the news catching fires.
In motorcycle applications, the batteries are constructed from a lithium-iron-phosphate blend that is significantly more chemical stable than traditional lithium-ion batteries.

What differentiate lithium batteries between brands is the BMS (Battery Management System). The BMS circuitry prevents cases of complete discharge by shutting down the battery before the power drain to a level that will damage it. It also ensures load balancing between cells.
 
#23 ·
I’ve been riding for about 20yrs now and I second everything you said there about Yuasa, Shorai and battery tenders. I’ve never used the other brands you mentioned so I can’t comment on that. I’ve had a few times where I just didn’t feel like shelling out the cash for a Yuasa and I regretted it both times. I got a season out of the Walmart battery and not even that out of the Amazon one. I had the Amazon one on a tender and when I went to start up the bike after a few months, there was nothing. Literally nothing-0.0V on a Fluke meter. Yuasa has never let me down.
 
#24 ·
Welcome to the Asylum, HoO! Sounds like you and I have similar riding and wrenching backgrounds, including dealership and retail experience. I agree with you on your Yuasa evangelism (personally, I'd never use WPS or PU batteries unless it was an emergency), however, I don't understand your "Shorai is king" stance. Do you mean in motorcycle lithium battery market share or in quality/R&D? I've been using motorcycle lithium ion batteries since the beginning, and unless I'm grossly mistaken, Speedcell Technologies was the first to bring the tech to the industry, and I'd argue that they are the best in quality, reliability, and longevity. I do think Shorai is better in their marketing, but then again, Speedcell has a much larger core business making batteries for machines that protect our country that aren't allowed to have battery failure. Their cells are hand-selected and matched to within 0.1 volt -- something that I don't think any other motorcycle lithium ion battery company does (maybe they do now, but Speedcell has always done this). There is a reason why they are used in MotoGP, Moto2, WSBK and MotoAmerica (anecdotal, not something I read). Not knocking your preference or Shorai for that matter, but I don't think they are the best or best made. I do like the way they house the batteries though.

That said, one of my Ducati's came with a lithium battery from a company called Skyrich. First time I ever heard of them, but according to their website, "we are proud to have been chosen as an Official Supplier for Ducati as of 2014." The bike came with a special charger for the battery since most standard trickle chargers aren't equipped to charge lithium batteries. To your Battery Tender advice, I'd like to add that anyone that is considering a lithium battery for their Monster should get a proper charger for it. The new Battery Tenders and similar will account for lithium (and different charging rate for AGM) batteries, but the old wall transformer types (Battery Tender, Jr.?) should not be used.
 
#25 ·
All I meant with the Shorai comment is that they have the biggest reputation for Lithium batteries. SkyRich also makes the factory batteries for KTM, but have seen many premature failures with them. I’ll admit I’m not as versed on Lithium manufactures and reputations, as I have never had much demand for them from my customers. I’m certainly not an expert, just very knowledgeable in general terms.
 
#26 ·
I just left the key on in my ignition over the weekend and killed the battery on my Monster 1100 EVO. I'm going to try to revive it, think that's doable if the battery's been flat for 2-3 days?

If I can't revive it, I think I'm going with the Yuasa route. I was looking for inexpensive routes and the Sigmas Tek reviews were looking promising, but I think you've convinced me to stick to what's proven to work intstead of rolling the dice......I'm definitely not looking to get stranded somewhere for the $100 difference.
 
#27 ·
If you’ve got the money, a Shorai would be a great investment, especially considering that you live in Canada (cold) and that you have an 1100, which are know for hard starting.
But if that’s not a viable option, a Yuasa will also serve you well. When you try to revive your current battery, don’t count on a battery tender to bring it back from the dead.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top