[DarR]

Still no recall notice for my 2015 1200s. Pretty disappointing.

Look no further than a faulty rear brake line. Although the brake line on my M1200R was changed under CR193 I feel the pain for those that have not had it recalled. There should be a recall across all Monster 1200 as it's a prevalent issue that plagues many other models as per CR186, CR188, CR191 and a several others.

2019 Ducati Monster 1200 Technical Service Bulletins

 

[Matt Dennis]

Look no further than a faulty rear brake line. Although the brake line on my M1200R was changed under CR193 I feel the pain for those that have not had it recalled. There should be a recall across all Monster 1200 as it's a prevalent issue that plagues many other models as per CR186, CR188, CR191 and a several others.

2019 Ducati Monster 1200 Technical Service Bulletins

These tech notices are only valid for Monster from 2017 and on.
I have spoken with my local Ducati dealership, and there is no recall for the previous model Monsters, 2014 to 2016.
Saying that, people have also complained about spongy rear brake on those model years too. In fact search the forum and you'll find most models Monsters have had owners complaining about spongy rear brakes. Which bring it all back to poor understanding of the brake system of the owners behalf and slack dealership doing the minimum. It is definitely heat related, and not bleeding the brake line correctly.

My previous Monster came with a spongy rear brake. I flushed the line with new fluid and it was great again. For a couple of long rides then it cam back.
Did it again and the spongy pedal came back again after a few more rides.
Insulation the brake line from the exhaust header fix the spongy pedal permanently.
I now have a 2015 Monster S. Again, I installed extra insulation around the brake line where its closest to the header, 4 months later the rear brake is still perfect.
What I am recommending people to do to fix their rear brake is very inexpensive and it works. 2014-16 Monster don't have a problem with the banjo's at the ABS module, like the 2017 models are having. Its very much is all related to heat and poor bleeding and the use of cheep brake fluid.

 

[ronski]

Here is an interesting solution to that crap ABS rear brake,
should work ok,

Happy New Year to all.....

 

[Matt Dennis]

😂😂😂😂😂

 

[lemosley01]

Mine is stock fluid, so I think I can rule out bad fluid I put in. I've never bled the brakes - I can rule out bad bleeding procedure. The brakes haven't been bled since the fluid was put into them.

My brake becomes spongy after the bike has sat more than several weeks. It's never gotten spongy while riding nor when parked and ridden the next day or a couple of days later. I think I can rule out heat because those symptoms don't fit - if it were heat, I'd expect it to be spongy when parked or at least the next day, and neither is true with my bike.

Jam a block of wood to hold the lever down and after sitting that way overnight, it's as good as it ever was, which is as good as any of my other bikes.

I will note that the first time it happened was this past spring after owning the bike (from new) for 3 years. Maybe it's time for a fluid change, though it doesn't have a lot of mileage on it.

 

[Dvy3178]

3 years. Definitely a long time for a motorcycle. It's still an issue with bikes that don't get that many miles put on them. The brake fluid is still steadily drawing water out of the air 24/7.

 

[Buhgaboo]

I think I put 3k miles on the bike last year...but I will add the brake is still solid...I could go soft in as early as 2 months with or without use...had been using an affordable dot 4 from Auto zone....switched to a higher temp/quality and it's been the fix I've been waiting for... definitely recommend adding it to the list of things to try if anyone is still struggling... recently switched to the 660 and haven't had any other issues with either

 

[Dvy3178]

Yeah, I used the cheap parts store brand to do a full flush on my car. Never again. I went a little too long (2 years) before doing it again in my opinion, but not terribly neglectful for a car. The mesh strainer in the reservoir was full of really scary looking green slime, and the rest of the fluid resembled Coca-Cola.

 

[Matt Dennis]

Mine is stock fluid, so I think I can rule out bad fluid I put in. I've never bled the brakes - I can rule out bad bleeding procedure. The brakes haven't been bled since the fluid was put into them.

My brake becomes spongy after the bike has sat more than several weeks. It's never gotten spongy while riding nor when parked and ridden the next day or a couple of days later. I think I can rule out heat because those symptoms don't fit - if it were heat, I'd expect it to be spongy when parked or at least the next day, and neither is true with my bike.

Jam a block of wood to hold the lever down and after sitting that way overnight, it's as good as it ever was, which is as good as any of my other bikes.

I will note that the first time it happened was this past spring after owning the bike (from new) for 3 years. Maybe it's time for a fluid change, though it doesn't have a lot of mileage on it.

First of all, 3 years before you did a fluid change!!!!!
You need to take your brakes seriously. Going three years between fluid changes is taking the piss. You are riding a high hourse powered bike, the operation of your brakes are every bit as important as the operation of your motor. The fact you say the spongyness has only started to happen with the old fluid, and you were using a piece of timber to chock the brake and that made it go away has my mind in a spin. I wouldn't even ride my bike.if the rear brake was like that. I would instantly flush the lines and get the front, rear and clutch or working perfectly before a ride. Also, after 3 years, you fluid would have absorbed moisture from the air (that what brake fluid does) and the h2o content would have boiled and release its oxygen content. It maybe just 1 little bubble. That's all it take for your brake to go spongy

I may have a bit of OCD when it comes to my bike. Buy if I have an accident, it'll be by rider error, not a mechanical fault.
Regarding my brakes, I usually use Motul RBF 600 or 660. Excellent product. At the moment I've got a Castrol high performance brake fluid in the lines (couldn't get Motul at the time). So far its been good, but I will swap it out soon for some Motul.

 

[janjaapdeluxe]

Just a few notes to put this into perspective:
The brake system is a closed system, there is no open connection to the outside world. So the amount of water coming from the bit of air in the reservoir is very low. As long as you keep it closed, do not unnecessary open it.
Sponginess is not coming from water that has boiled. Water vapor returns to water when cooling down.
In most cases the sponginess comes from air in the system. Tiny bits might slip in with each movement of the master cylinder, calipers, porous (old) brakelines, couplings, etc.
Then why change the fluid?
Parts of your brake system slowly wear, which contaminates the fluid, some of the air dissolves in the fluid as well as a bit of water.
If you do a fluid change, just make sure you do a correct and clean job. I'd rather drive a bike with 10 year old fluid, than one which had a incorrect fluid change.

Oh, and a lot of people will never get the brake fluid to the boiling point ....

 

[Buhgaboo]

Just a few notes to put this into perspective:
The brake system is a closed system, there is no open connection to the outside world. So the amount of water coming from the bit of air in the reservoir is very low. As long as you keep it closed, do not unnecessary open it.
Sponginess is not coming from water that has boiled. Water vapor returns to water when cooling down.
In most cases the sponginess comes from air in the system. Tiny bits might slip in with each movement of the master cylinder, calipers, porous (old) brakelines, couplings, etc.
Then why change the fluid?
Parts of your brake system slowly wear, which contaminates the fluid, some of the air dissolves in the fluid as well as a bit of water.
If you do a fluid change, just make sure you do a correct and clean job. I'd rather drive a bike with 10 year old fluid, than one which had a incorrect fluid change.

Oh, and a lot of people will never get the brake fluid to the boiling point ....

Spoken like a Ducati lawyer... lol....I can watch my fluid change color...your numbers are not based in reality...thank you for your disinformation

 

[lemosley01]

It's too late - I've already died because I didn't change my brake fluid religiously. I was already pushing it by going a few hours over the recommended max, but a year was way too much and now I'm posting from the great beyond. But the weather is nice, so there's that.

You'd be even more horrified to know I've never changed the fluid in my 8 year old ZX-14R. But then again, I don't spend my time doing hard stops boiling my fluid on the street. It turns out, even trace amounts water in a braking system is non-compressible, too.

My oil gets dirty within 500 miles, but I...gasp!...let it go almost 2000 whole miles before changing it. Once I even let it go to 2008 miles. I was truly terrified but I was really living on the edge, and it was exhilarating!

I take my fluid change statement back though - my bike underwent the recall 2 years ago, so I got all new fluid then. Except on the rear brake. Which, like I said, works perfectly when I jam a block of wood to hold it down overnight and ride it regularly.

 

[ronski]

Oh, and a lot of people will never get the brake fluid to the boiling point

Time for school science hat to go on.
brake fluid absorbs moisture from the air over time.
air in the system usually is from this moisture that releases air when hot. does not need to be boiling, ie. water at 100deg.
any dirt in the system, increases the process.

A simple test, often used to check a thermostat. (my car one opens at 77deg)
put some cold water in a pot, turn on heat, long, long, before it boils you will see small air bubbles forming.
Now put in a dirty thermostat, even more bubbles form around dirt and metal, still a long way from boiling,
Try it.
There is more than enough heat from engine or high swept exhaust for this process to happen.

just my 2 cents.

 

[lemosley01]

While I understand your point, you're comparing water with a mix of brake fluid and a very small amount of water (they claim up to 2% water absorption per year). The limits of that behavior is probably going to be...different.

If this were happening, my brake would go mushy while riding. It doesn't. It never has. It doesn't even go mushy after cooling. It happens after sitting unridden for some time.

This seems to indicate a tiny amount of air is trapped in the braking system somewhere, or there is some tiny ingress point for air. Changing the fluid may fix it for a while because I've bled all of the air out of the system.

I'll be changing fluid this year anyway, probably with DOT5 which is not hygroscopic, so that should put to bed any concerns about water in the fluid.

 

[Dvy3178]

I don't know that I would call it disinformation entirely. But as in almost everything, there's theory vs. reality. In the big picture, there is always consequences as well. Can I drive my car 15,000 between oil changes? Sure. Will there be any problems down the road. Most likely.
As far as water in the brake fluid, it's not as harmless as some may think. Much like ethanol in fuel, it's not the ethanol that creates the major problems. It's the super charged hyper corrosive water mixture that it spawns.

They're your brakes. Maintain them however you like. It's not a matter of how long you can go before you notice any issues. It's just the severity of the issue when it finally surfaces.

 

[Dvy3178]

You

While I understand your point, you're comparing water with a mix of brake fluid and a very small amount of water (they claim up to 2% water absorption per year). The limits of that behavior is probably going to be...different.

If this were happening, my brake would go mushy while riding. It doesn't. It never has. It doesn't even go mushy after cooling. It happens after sitting unridden for some time.

This seems to indicate a tiny amount of air is trapped in the braking system somewhere, or there is some tiny ingress point for air. Changing the fluid may fix it for a while because I've bled all of the air out of the system.

I'll be changing fluid this year anyway, probably with DOT5 which is not hygroscopic, so that should put to bed any concerns about water in the fluid.

You are aware that switching to DOT 5 requires a complete teardown and cleaning of the braking system right?

 

[Buhgaboo]

While I understand your point, you're comparing water with a mix of brake fluid and a very small amount of water (they claim up to 2% water absorption per year). The limits of that behavior is probably going to be...different.

If this were happening, my brake would go mushy while riding. It doesn't. It never has. It doesn't even go mushy after cooling. It happens after sitting unridden for some time.

This seems to indicate a tiny amount of air is trapped in the braking system somewhere, or there is some tiny ingress point for air. Changing the fluid may fix it for a while because I've bled all of the air out of the system.

I'll be changing fluid this year anyway, probably with DOT5 which is not hygroscopic, so that should put to bed any concerns about water in the fluid.

I do mean there's a merit badge for bleeding the rear brake...

before you go silicone...

which means you have to bleed the system whether you want to or not... because...the moisture present will no longer mix..it just sits at the lowest point and corrodes the metal

Get the brake taught...and notice how easy it is to introduce air into the system...from not closing the bleed fast enough...from not tilting the caliper...passing the min mark....it's real easy to have a solid pedal...than immediately not...I get the silicone...I think there are steps to be mitigated and understood before any benefit can be gained from such a switch...never mind the perpetual standing water hazard...

My 3 cents

 

[Matt Dennis]

It's too late - I've already died because I didn't change my brake fluid religiously. I was already pushing it by going a few hours over the recommended max, but a year was way too much and now I'm posting from the great beyond. But the weather is nice, so there's that.

You'd be even more horrified to know I've never changed the fluid in my 8 year old ZX-14R. But then again, I don't spend my time doing hard stops boiling my fluid on the street. It turns out, even trace amounts water in a braking system is non-compressible, too.

My oil gets dirty within 500 miles, but I...gasp!...let it go almost 2000 whole miles before changing it. Once I even let it go to 2008 miles. I was truly terrified but I was really living on the edge, and it was exhilarating!

I take my fluid change statement back though - my bike underwent the recall 2 years ago, so I got all new fluid then. Except on the rear brake. Which, like I said, works perfectly when I jam a block of wood to hold it down overnight and ride it regularly.

Well have fun with your bike and its lame brakes along with your lame sarcasm.

For me, the time it take to flush through new brake fluid is a benift knowing my brakes work as they are intended. I also down and looking around for anything loose or not quiet right while I bleed the brakes. I personally would be embarrassed to admit I need to chock the brake over night just to make them work properly. That's some ******* hack you have going on there. But a hack is better then a permanent fix, right?
It hate to imagine what the rest of your bike is like.

 

[Matt Dennis]

Here is the main culprit that makes the rear brake spongy. The rear exhaust header is so close to the rear brake line I can't fit my finger between the header and brake line.
The exhaust header can reach temperatures up to 1000 degrees. I doubt most of us get their pipes that hot, but with extreme high temperature heat cycles, it going to shorten the lifespan of the brake fluid very quickly in that rear brake line as appose to the front brakes, and hence why I keep preaching to use the best quality Brake fluid you can afford. Motul is excellent and not that expensive.
In my case, while I had the headers off getting ceramic coated, I installed some extra heat reflective insulation (in conjunction with the factory heat shield) around the brake line where the header pipe is closest.

Bleeding the rear brake is not all that hard either, unless you already have air in the line, in which you will have to remove the rear caliper and invert the caliper so bleed nipple is pointing upwards and the air is dispelled out as you flush the line.
Otherwise if there is no air in the line, I connected a clear tube (mine is 3ft long) that fits snug on the nipple, immediately run the tube upwards and then down to a container. Crack lose the nipple while you have firm pressure on the foot brake.
The tube running upwards will prevent air going back into the caliper. Its pretty easy to do, and take lest then 1hr to flush the line in the front and rear brake, and clutch. For the inexpensive cost of brake fluid, I I flush all the lines once the clutch fluid changes colour. I havent had my rear brake go spongy once. I have tracked the bike and Im big on using the rear brake, something I have always done since my MotoX days.
A little bit of work in the shed dure your off season, can save you a tonne of headaches

 

[DarR]

Just a few notes to put this into perspective:
The brake system is a closed system, there is no open connection to the outside world. So the amount of water coming from the bit of air in the reservoir is very low. As long as you keep it closed, do not unnecessary open it.
Sponginess is not coming from water that has boiled. Water vapor returns to water when cooling down.
In most cases the sponginess comes from air in the system. Tiny bits might slip in with each movement of the master cylinder, calipers, porous (old) brakelines, couplings, etc.
Then why change the fluid?
Parts of your brake system slowly wear, which contaminates the fluid, some of the air dissolves in the fluid as well as a bit of water.
If you do a fluid change, just make sure you do a correct and clean job. I'd rather drive a bike with 10 year old fluid, than one which had a incorrect fluid change.

Oh, and a lot of people will never get the brake fluid to the boiling point ....

I've read some interesting misinformed posts before but this one wins first prize.
Do read the information in the following link.

Motul RBF 600 Brake Fluid (500) - Dynamic Racing Solutions by Motul | Dynamic Racing Solutions

Motul's RBF600 racing brake fluid boils at 594 deg F dry, 420 deg F wet. It is a glycol-based fluid and meets DOT 4 standards. It is compatible with all...

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