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Old 01-04-2013, 09:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Mario,
Beezwiz here (Rob) I live in the far west burbs of Chicago. Bought my 2102 Monster 696 from MCC in Villa Park. So far the only issue I have had is a #10 wood screw in my Pirreli Angel rear tire at 800 miles.
How much did 2 months and 18+ hours of tech cost???
Which dealer did you buy from if you don't mind me asking... I only know of 2 in Chicago area...
I've ridden alot, & I mean alot of different brand of bikes in the 30 years I have riden on the street, and never heard that a "Performance Exhaust System" would solve poor running problems.
If the place I bought the bike thought I was that inept, I would never go back!
When I picked up the wood screw, the dealership quoted me $250.00 for the rear tire replacement... I choked and asked the salesman if was F@#!KING NUTS to his face... of course this set him back a bit, I then told him I could get the same tire over the internet for 175.00 all day long. Well I got the tire for 185.00 out the door... sometimes ya just gotta be jerk! ( Being old,grey and heavily tattoo'd helps too)
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:24 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Default 2012 Monster 696

Oopps... and to think I proof read my script before hitting send.
That would be a 2012 Monster... not 2102
Beez out
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Beez, Ducati has to make a lot concessions to get the bikes to meet worldwide emission laws and noise regulations. Overall the engineers have produced a bike that works for most people most of the time. This is especially true of any manufacturer building air cooled engines, they are more difficult to meet emission regulations. Obviously to meet noise regulations you restrict the exhaust and make it as quiet as you can. To meet emission regulations you try and lean the fuel mix as much as you possibly can. This creates issues for many owners. All it takes is for the fuel injection to come slightly out of synch, a dirty O2 sensor, or whatever to disrupt the bike. Ducati engineer have a work around for this, they design the bike with the exhaust and ECU they want it to run with, and then pinch it down to work for the world. Then they have Termignoni build the exhaust and package it with a properly tuned ECU and air filter. This is known information and not a trade secret. It's a convenient work around the laws for people that want the extra performance or sweeter running machine. I can understand completely why a shop might try and sell you on the system if you are having gremlins, it can solve them and make them go away.

So keep that in mind for your next 30+ years of riding.

I have full Termi kits on my Paul Smart and S4RS and don't ever seem to have the running issues I hear others complain about. I've seen many frustrated owners order the kit and praise it for getting rid of rough idle spots, poor starting, or other what nots.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by caferacermike View Post
Beez, Ducati has to make a lot concessions to get the bikes to meet worldwide emission laws and noise regulations. Overall the engineers have produced a bike that works for most people most of the time. This is especially true of any manufacturer building air cooled engines, they are more difficult to meet emission regulations. Obviously to meet noise regulations you restrict the exhaust and make it as quiet as you can. To meet emission regulations you try and lean the fuel mix as much as you possibly can. This creates issues for many owners. All it takes is for the fuel injection to come slightly out of synch, a dirty O2 sensor, or whatever to disrupt the bike. Ducati engineer have a work around for this, they design the bike with the exhaust and ECU they want it to run with, and then pinch it down to work for the world. Then they have Termignoni build the exhaust and package it with a properly tuned ECU and air filter. This is known information and not a trade secret. It's a convenient work around the laws for people that want the extra performance or sweeter running machine. I can understand completely why a shop might try and sell you on the system if you are having gremlins, it can solve them and make them go away.

So keep that in mind for your next 30+ years of riding.

I have full Termi kits on my Paul Smart and S4RS and don't ever seem to have the running issues I hear others complain about. I've seen many frustrated owners order the kit and praise it for getting rid of rough idle spots, poor starting, or other what nots.
I understand the kit could fix the issues, but I don't want to spend more money on an already expensive bike, which I got brand new, just to make it run the way it should.
The problem is my dealer is 2 hours away, I guess I have no choice but to bring it in and have them fix it under warranty... I just hope I didn't get a lemon...
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Performace exhaust for poor running bike.

Mike,
So I buy a $10,000.00 motorcyle that I have to sink another $1,100.00 for the cheapest Termi system to get my NEW bike to run right... I guess I'm missing the boat here. Ok so Ducati has make bikes for every countries emmission laws,that should be at the buyers expense??? I'm happy for you that a Performance exhaust kept you from having any issues w/ your S4R & PS 1000, but not everyone who works OT, Skips lunches, and deprives themselves of other things so they can buy the bike of their dreams... only to find out the only way to get your bike to run right is spend more money.
Beez
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm not going to argue it with you, I was only explaining the process. It's your money, do with it as you will.

There is a reason why I did not buy the new EVO. It was because I didn't feel it was worth $17k after the exhaust was added.

BTW, I work construction and I logged 435 hours of OT last year,

Description Rate Hours Earnings Hours Earnings
Overtime xx.xx0000 16.00 xxx.88 435.00 xx,139.90
Regular xx.xx0000 40.00 xxxx.80 1,904.00 xx,595.02


So please don't complain to me about it. I live in a shitty little $100k home with a cracked foundation, a 2003 Ranger is what my girl drives. We ain't exactly living high on the hog here. I choose to enjoy my motorcycles, and I understand the expense that goes along with them, so I choose not to bitch about it. I don't care that you are covered in tattoos, so am I. In fact I got a hole through my dick I can pass a finger through it, self inflicted and it's been sewn up with a bunch of marbles in it as well. I've also been riding bikes for generations, who cares? I have over 20 motorcycles at the house at any given time, what does that matter? I'm just telling ya why a shop might say it would help someone's bike run better. So there.
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01 M600, aka, The Pink Monster
97 900SS CR
72 Norton Commando 750
03 KX60 with S4R rear shock,Honda CB350F, Hodaka Ace90, 3x Yam-YGS1, Yam-CS3 200, Vespa small frame, Gilera 106, Puch Sabre, Puch 50 Boy Racer, Ducati 250 bevel, Benelli 250, Benelli 360, Honda CB350T, and many more.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yea, it sucks, but with the EPA and EU standards, it is IMPOSSIBLE to build the bike that Ducati wants to build. The next best thing that they can do is to make it very easy for the consumer to remedy those issues. And to be honest, they couldn't make it any easier... install a Termi kit. Granted, they could make it cheaper, but that's a different argument.
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:39 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by evoardo 696 View Post
I seem to be having the same problem, 2013 monster 696... it runs nice and smooth and seems like after a fill up, the bike starts to sputter and stalls at lights, even if it's fully warmed up, does not want to hold idle...
So, what was the actual fix? cleaning the throttle bodies, passages? map sensor? Please elaborate a bit more so I can go and take my brand new bike apart and fix it
Evoardo, So the actual fix was that the dealer took the throttle bodies apart, cleaned out the passages completely of the gray sludge material that formed and re-assembled it. Once those passages were cleaned the bike ran good as new according to him. They did put new map sensors on it as well as a new ECU but after they realized the issue was the "sludge" they confirmed the other labor never really needed to be done. They told me to buy K100-MG fuel additive which prevents the moisture buildup in plastic tanks such as ours (apparently this happens often in marine engines also due to the plastic tanks?) and the bike has run perfectly since then. Hope this helps, keep me informed on your progress!
Mario
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by beezwiz View Post
Mario,
Beezwiz here (Rob) I live in the far west burbs of Chicago. Bought my 2102 Monster 696 from MCC in Villa Park. So far the only issue I have had is a #10 wood screw in my Pirreli Angel rear tire at 800 miles.
How much did 2 months and 18+ hours of tech cost???
Which dealer did you buy from if you don't mind me asking... I only know of 2 in Chicago area...
I've ridden alot, & I mean alot of different brand of bikes in the 30 years I have riden on the street, and never heard that a "Performance Exhaust System" would solve poor running problems.
If the place I bought the bike thought I was that inept, I would never go back!
When I picked up the wood screw, the dealership quoted me $250.00 for the rear tire replacement... I choked and asked the salesman if was F@#!KING NUTS to his face... of course this set him back a bit, I then told him I could get the same tire over the internet for 175.00 all day long. Well I got the tire for 185.00 out the door... sometimes ya just gotta be jerk! ( Being old,grey and heavily tattoo'd helps too)
Hey Beez,
I actually bought mine from MCC as well. A buddy of mine owns Conrad's Harley Davidson and used to race with Geoff from MCC. I have had great luck with him and a few of the other guys there have also been good to work with but there was one mechanic there who seemed pretty inept and as luck would have it, he turned out to be the guy fixing my bike and I believe he was the one who mentioned buying a new exhaust would cure these issues I had... Lovely right? I almost sunk $1000 into a new exhaust which would have given me a marginal HP gain only to realize I still had the same issues from the damn ethanol messing up my tank. To answer your first question, the labor charge would have ended up being close to $2000 but I told him I wasn't paying that much (I should state here that they were in contact with techs from Ducati in Italy and other technicians in the US who could not figure the problem out either and AFTER the problem was finally diagnosed one of the techs -according to my guy- said oh yeah, we have seen that problem pop up before and that's exactly how we fixed it. So, long story short my mechanic asked Ducati to honor part of the labor costs due to the nature of the issue and that I was just out of warranty and was actually experiencing the issue while in warranty.) I ended up paying $450
Mario
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:58 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mariojc1 View Post
Evoardo, So the actual fix was that the dealer took the throttle bodies apart, cleaned out the passages completely of the gray sludge material that formed and re-assembled it. Once those passages were cleaned the bike ran good as new according to him. They did put new map sensors on it as well as a new ECU but after they realized the issue was the "sludge" they confirmed the other labor never really needed to be done. They told me to buy K100-MG fuel additive which prevents the moisture buildup in plastic tanks such as ours (apparently this happens often in marine engines also due to the plastic tanks?) and the bike has run perfectly since then. Hope this helps, keep me informed on your progress!
Mario
Here is the link btw:
http://www.k100fueltreatment.com/index.html
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