Questioning everything while taking slow corners

[digreyfox]

Hey, I'll start with some background.

I've been riding for almost four years, most of them spent on my first bike, a Yamaha( Star) Virago 250. I did 20k miles on it and i still have it. It's slow, it can't corner well, the riding position is terrible for cornering and the brakes are non-existant. I still love it and got to the point where i scrape the pegs on that tiny cruiser in corners and feel that my ability is beyond what that bike can offer.

So, November last, after nurturing a love for monsters for many a year, and living in Bologna for a stretch, i came back home and got a Monster 796. The winter was pretty rainy and I've had to drive a car for a lot of things so it's only got 1200 miles on the clock. And we're getting close to the problem.

I've ridden this thing through twisties in the rain (lovely with a short tail, my back looked like muddy modern art!), I do lanesplitting on the highway on a daily basis, i've gotten up to 205km/h on the beast and i've ridden through some twisty roads for hours without fear. I have, however, been trying to take it slow because I feel and Know that this machine has much to offer that i just can't explore at my current level. And that's a great thing, it means I have months and years to come of improvement to go.


Now the problem: Going slow.

It started this week. I am fine riding in most circumstances, but when i get to tightish slow corners I get too stiff and I'm afraid of dropping the bike. It sounds ridiculous, but the fact is that i'm not afraid of taking corner at 70mph but i get terrified of taking a 45 degree turn at 15mph in my neighbourhood.

The gearing doesn't help. I end up taking most slow turns and roundabouts in 1st gear for i feel like the bike isn't planted if i do them in 2nd (3-3.5k RPM). Most of all I am scared that the bike might drop mid-turn.

So I ask you, what's going on ? I think I might not be looking through the corner as i usually do because of this fear sometimes, but things like coming down from 30mph to take a corner into a sidestreet at a 45º angle doesn't need "looking through" the corner, i just become scared of the lack of speed and throttle pulling the bike.

Can the bike actually drop in a turn like that, to begin with ? It's amazingly stable going straight, but i get this irrational (?) fear that it may drop taking slow turns.

I feel silly posting about this but it's driving me crazy.

[aznmonster796]

thank you so much for posting this, i swear i thought i was the only one. im in the EXACT same boat as you.

[Madbones]

What you need to do is a motorcycle course. Yeah i know youve been riding a while but you can never stop learning. My wife rides a monster and loves this forum. I ride a 848 and the tequniques are basically the same what ever you ride. You most likely are not turning your head.
Dont look at the ground. Countersteering will get your bike going where you want ( small input on the handlebar). Push on the left forewards to get the bike leaning to the left into a left hander and the opposite for a right turn. Great practised in an empty carpark as you can use the spaces as a lane to turn from. Just remember to turn your head and look in the direction you want to go.

[DutchDude]

also... what I have learned during my motor cycle driving lessons, is to use the rear brake during very slow tight turns. This will make the bike a little bit more "stiff".

[DMonster1]

When approaching a turn, downshift to 1st or 2nd whichever feels best,keep a smooth throttle input going into the turn, look through the turn and accelerate out smoothly.

If youre talking about problems with parking lot speed turns 15mph and less....or turning from a stop.I would slip the clutch and keep the revs mid-range.Drag the rear-brake slightly and "keep momemtum going forward".The only way youre going down mid turn is chopping the throttle or using the front brake while leaned over.Which is a bad thing to do on a motorcycle pretty much always.The feeling you should have should be like when you accelerate from a stop on an uphill.The bike will pull like it wants to go but since your dragging the rear brake it will be less power than is actually getting to the rear wheel.= smoother throttle input.

Also an MSF course wouldnt hurt they have intermediate and advance courses.Or a few hours in an empty parking lot.Just try taking slow turns and increase the lean angle as you become more confident.Practice doing a u-turn in 2.5-3 parking spaces.If you can do that then you shouldnt have a problem with any turns.

[digreyfox]

Thank you all for the input.
I think i just got anxious over messing up the slow corners that afternoon. The day after I posted things were back to normal. I was getting paranoid and thinking too much. I'm back to normal now, looking where i want to go and smoother on the throttle.

The issue was/is with the throttle. I'm not used, yet, to taking turns in first gear. It feels unnatural but I'll get it done.

Also, I'm going to try and find an empty parking lot to practice u-turns and figure eights. Once i get those down I'll be fine. It's the (comparatively) huge turning radius and very different riding position that still make me feel out of place.

I can't take an MSF course since I'm in Portugal. Over here you take 20 one-hour riding sessions/lessons where you basically ride alone in the city and practice u turns and figure eights between curbs. Add some lessons on road code and technical aspects of motorcycling, pass two exams (one riding, one written) and you get your license. And that's it.

By the way, the turn that sparked this existencial crisis was this one:



And i still mess it up, usually running wide and going over to the left lane (if i start on the right lane) or on the right lane if i take the left lane. Technically i should just take the left lane to dig in from the outside and stay there.

More time on the saddle and less overthinking it is.

[DMonster1]

Good..You know what youre doing.Just a little more bonding with the bike should do the trick.

[Zombie_Hunter]

Originally Posted by digreyfox

Thank you all for the input.
I think i just got anxious over messing up the slow corners that afternoon. The day after I posted things were back to normal. I was getting paranoid and thinking too much. I'm back to normal now, looking where i want to go and smoother on the throttle.

The issue was/is with the throttle. I'm not used, yet, to taking turns in first gear. It feels unnatural but I'll get it done.

Also, I'm going to try and find an empty parking lot to practice u-turns and figure eights. Once i get those down I'll be fine. It's the (comparatively) huge turning radius and very different riding position that still make me feel out of place.

I can't take an MSF course since I'm in Portugal. Over here you take 20 one-hour riding sessions/lessons where you basically ride alone in the city and practice u turns and figure eights between curbs. Add some lessons on road code and technical aspects of motorcycling, pass two exams (one riding, one written) and you get your license. And that's it.

By the way, the turn that sparked this existencial crisis was this one:



And i still mess it up, usually running wide and going over to the left lane (if i start on the right lane) or on the right lane if i take the left lane. Technically i should just take the left lane to dig in from the outside and stay there.

More time on the saddle and less overthinking it is.

While I have had a 3 year break form bikes I am in the process of buy a replacement Ducati. I have been licensed for bikes since 1977 and while always a full time rider (family priorities etc), I have been riding (learning) all that time.

Congratulations for recognizing areas for development, as soon as you "get" this aspect you will find another. There is nothing as scary as those who think they have nothing more to learn about riding or driving no matter how good or natural they are.

A couple of points:

1) Take an intermediate course, they should spend some time do very slow turns and figure 8s';
2) Don't be afriad to let to bike down while you stay vertical, in very slow turns, but trail the rear brake and keep some power on, using the brake to stop it getting away form you;
3) Running wide on corners is something else the course should spend sometime on as is it one of the biggest killers, running wide into oncoming traffic. If you find you are always running wide on that one corner you are either going in too hot or unbalanced, or you are not hitting the apex. the two sayings are "in slow, out fast" and "in wide, out tight". I.E stay a little wide before you drop in, this allows you to settle "balance" the bike under brakes while still upright before committing drop in tight, if slow drag a little rear, don't power up until to can see the exit. You will then go where ever you are looking.

I hope I don't sound like a preacher, but at my age I am in the high fatality demographic, and the two longer periods off the bike were always followed by a refresher (advanced) course, just to dust off the cobwebs and bring me back to earth.

Take care, Tony

From Oz.

[Seabrooks]

Sorry to stray from the thread topic, but....fatality demographic? I was under the impression that us "seasoned" riders were substantially less apt to be involved in serious/fatal incidents than the new/young riders. Did I miss some new statistics during my 10 year hiatus?
BTW I've been riding since the late 60's and licensed since 75 or so.

[Zombie_Hunter]

Hi Seabrooks. The two short lived groups are the inexperienced paeticularly in combination with too much bike.

The other group are older riders, post mid-life, retunring to riding and assuming their prior skils, balance, reaction time etc are as sharp as they used to be. That is why our local training groups do a special course for this group and others returning from say a decade off, still with full licneses and buying the biggest meanest superbike which they can now afford.

Cheers, Tony