Questions about going into a turn too fast.

[Moronic]

Originally Posted by jcmjoe

I really hope that this doesnt sound like a dumb question ,but I figured there would be some experienced racers on here that could give me some tips. I have an 07 S2R 1K. I love the bike and I am very comfortable riding it hard into turns. If you find you are going into a turn too fast should you use the front brakes or back to safely slow you down without throwing the bike out of wack while leaned over in the turn? I had a spill in my earlier riding days and took a break from fast turns until I got my monster. I try to be cautious on unfamiliar roads, but sometimes you go into a turn and it ends up being alot sharper than it looks. I just dont want to make the same mistake again.Thanks for any advice guys. Joe

Joe,

I'll offer two suggestions.

1. When the turn ends up being "a lot sharper than it looks", use the front brake.

Simply because that is the best way to wash off a lot of speed in a hurry.

However, using the front brake will tend to stand you up or (if you are on it hard enough) prevent you turning in.

Assuming you're not going so fast that you have no choice but to go straight through the turn and off the road, the trick here is to work out when you're going just slow enough to make the turn, then get off the brake and get turned.

Unfortunately, that is quite a trick.

If you have ever watched a MotoGP or Superbike race on TV, you can see the racers doing this when they overcook. Happened quite a bit at the MotoGP in China yesterday, where a long straight is followed by a slow corner. Valentino Rossi, Colin Edwards and others got into the slow turn too hot on occasion. They all ran (almost) straight on under heavy front brake, until they could get off the brake and turn the bike, entering the turn very late and wide.

The rear brake is helpful if you are in the turn and leaned over, and just need to tighten your line a little bit. Its advantage is that it will pull you tighter in the turn, where the front brake will tend to run you wide initially. But you won't wash off much speed with the rear brake.

2. Develop the habit of braking more gently.

If your riding style is to get off the throttle at the last moment and rush up to turns hard on the brakes, you make it hard for yourself to judge a good, fast entry speed for the turn. It is easy to slow down too much (or, less happily, too little).

In contrast, getting onto the brake a bit sooner and more gently gives you a better chance of getting into the turn at a good speed.

The time you lose with the earlier, gentler braking will be made up - and more - from the higher apex speed you carry through the turn.

You'll also have a better chance of picking up those extra-sharp curves sooner, and a bit of brake in reserve to slow down for them.

(I know the top racers seem to hit every turn max on the brakes, but they are the top racers - and even they usually pay for a max-brake overtake with a slower lap time.)

My opinion, FWIW. ;D Hope it helps.

[msincredible]

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[jcmjoe]

Thanks so much for all of the great advice, I am going to start going in slower and using the throttle and build my speed thru the corner rather than slow down quick and drift thru like I have gotten into the horrible habit of doing. I appreciate everything guys. Joe ;D

[ScottRNelson]

After reading the first post I knew what to write, but Johnster said all of the important stuff. Pay attention to what he said.

I've read a few books about riding techniques. The one that had the biggest effect on my riding was Proficient Motorcycling by David L. Hough. Once I learned the delayed apex technique I have had NO more problems with entering turns too hot. Lee Parks and others also explain basically the same technique.

What I do is make sure that all of my braking is done before I start the turn. I enter the turn from the outside of the lane and don't start turning until the latest possible point. Once the turn begins, I crack the throttle, then give it more as the turn opens up. If I have to get off of the throttle or worse, use the brakes, it means that I've entered the turn a little faster than I should have. I'll still occasionally misjudge a turn so that I have to touch the brakes a little, but it's never in panic anymore.

If you want to survive on the street and avoid crashing again, learn the proper technique for the delayed apex turn. You're much better off learning how to avoid being too hot in a turn in the first place than learning how to maybe save it once you've made that mistake.

Your goal should not be to ride faster, it should be to ride without making any mistakes. Speed comes after you learn how to be smooth and safe.

[jcmjoe]

Thank you Scott and Johnstar, just an update, On my way home today I took a road with some good turns that I was familiar with, entered the turns at a comfortable speed, gradually applied throttle thru the turn and figured out exactly what you guys are saying. Wow, that is so much smoother and controlled, I also found I was leaning alot more but felt totally at ease. For some reason not quite as comfortable on right turns but I think I could drag a knee soon on the left turns [laugh] Thanks again for all of the great advice. Joe

[Johnster]

Originally Posted by jcmjoe

Thank you Scott and Johnstar, just an update, On my way home today I took a road with some good turns that I was familiar with, entered the turns at a comfortable speed, gradually applied throttle thru the turn and figured out exactly what you guys are saying. Wow, that is so much smoother and controlled, I also found I was leaning alot more but felt totally at ease. For some reason not quite as comfortable on right turns but I think I could drag a knee soon on the left turns [laugh] Thanks again for all of the great advice. Joe

Cool man, great to hear!! [thumbsup] You see what I'm saying now w/throttling though the turn, right?? It keeps the suspension right in the sweet-spot where it needs to be....

That left-right thing will get better w/practice.....For me, it had to do w/the throttle hand being low to the ground on right-handers, thus making it slightly less comfortable, but I got over it....

[tufty]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the most important rule; If you go in too hot, or think you are (99% of the time it's just your panic reflex), the very first rule is to LOOK where you want to go and KEEP LOOKING. Forget the brakes, in most cases you will make the bike tighten the turn subconciously just by looking through the turn.

If you must brake (only as a last resort) then start very, very lightly......


LOOK, LOOK, LOOK and KEEP LOOKING through the turn your body and bike will follow your eyes. I can't stress enough how important it is to LOOK!!

[blawrence]

I think the most important thing to do is .. if you find yourself going too fast into a corner.. . push through, you will be surprised what you find your bike capable of. and it would be better to low side rather than just straight run off the road into something that doesn't move,, not to say that either is .. wanted

but the rules I have read and used are these:
- In a curve, if you find yourself going wide and a little faster than you wanted,, used your rear brake gently,, it will slow you up a little and tighten your curve without putting extra force on your front tire. ... DO it smoothly
- as mentioned before, if you do anything,, do it smoothly, don't grab up the front brake in a panic, etc.
- keep looking through the curve and .. lean over more if you need, .. as I mentioned above .. you will find yourself way more capable than you might expect.

.. my hairy story is one morning , I got throttle happy going into some curves. I don't know what i looked like from third party but I like to think maybe it would remind you of the motoGP guys with my rear tire drifting out several inches through the curve and my boot scraping the pavement.. .. I go slower now

[jcmjoe]

Just wanted to thank ScottRnelson on the suggestion of the "Proficient Motorcycling " book. I ordered it the same day you posted your comment and it is packed full of great advice. Also just to mention to Tufty that he stresses alot about "looking thru turns. Thanks for all of the great tips again. Joe

[crankmonster]

Originally Posted by dan900sie

Any abrupt input in a corner can be disastrous, be it brake, steering input or throttle. Anyone that says you can always throttle out of a dicey situation knows no more about bike control than someone who says you should always brake. If you think you're too hot into a corner there's a very good chance you really aren't near the limits of traction so smooth steering input will work most times. You can use your front brake very deep into a corner if it's done gradually, but if you try to lose any significant amount of speed with your rear your gonna go down. In the corner the bike will always be more stable with pressure on the suspension either from brake or throttle. Ideally, you ease off the front brake to the apex of the corner and ease on the throttle as you exit.

This is some of the best advice yet to be posted.


So now I'll give you mine SLOW DOWN! It is obvious by your question you ride to fast and are having problems with the corners. The street is the street, you want to go fast go to the track.