Big rigs and motorcycles

[ctnhd]

Really good info, I used to pass in my car all the time in the left lane. I knew it was wrong but never thought about it. Thank you for the heads up.

[mmoore]

Originally Posted by DesmosDromos

This is a thoughtful and informative post! Thanks to Shadowchaser.

Perhaps this should be a sticky or in a FAQ somewhere?

Just added it to the riding FAQ. [thumbsup]

[surly]

Originally Posted by SHADOWCHASER

As far as coming up on a truck to pass it,* remember unless you can see our mirrors clearly we cannot see you!* Always pass on the Left side, Never on the Right (Our Blind Side).* We have a saying in trucking that some have even posted signs on their trailer doors "Left side passing side.* Right Side SUICIDE!"

That was good advice. Thanks

Originally Posted by SHADOWCHASER

Stay in the center of your lane PACE the truck, and briefly flash your high beams off and on to catch our attention.

Perhaps this is too but I wonder why a trucker shouldnt have to check their mirrors like everyone else. While it wont matter if your dead I believe he burden is on them to operate their machine safely. They do have big honkin mirrors.

One of my riding buddues is a long time state trooper. He gave me a recomendation on trucks:
Beware of anything carrying smashed cars, logs and livestock.
He saw more accidents with this type of cargo which he attributed to 1. The cargo and 2. These drivers arent the "creme of the crop"

I dont know aboot number 2 but I'd rather haul a nice trailer full of tampons then a load of cows or some smashed oily cars [laugh]

[SHADOWCHASER]

Originally Posted by surly

That was good advice. Thanks

Perhaps this is too but I wonder why a trucker shouldn't have to check their mirrors like everyone else. While it wont matter if your dead I believe he burden is on them to operate their machine safely. They do have big honkin mirrors.

One of my riding buddies is a long time state trooper. He gave me a recommendation on trucks:Beware of anything carrying smashed cars, logs and livestock.
He saw more accidents with this type of cargo which he attributed to 1. The cargo and 2. These drivers aren't the "creme of the crop"

I don't know about number 2 but I'd rather haul a nice trailer full of tampons then a load of cows or some smashed oily cars [laugh]

Surly, the following post IS NOT aimed directly at you. So please don't take offence to it. Your post did however spark my need to respond in general as a fellow rider and Comercial Driver..............


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________


It is true that Commercial Drivers are ultimately responsible for their actions and /or deficiencies of their actions, but when you are dealing with a vehicle that will most certainly cost you your life in an altercation, doesn't it make more sense to try to make yourself seen to the point of redundancy, rather than playing craps with your life and assuming that you are seen and the driver knows your intentions? ??? Mighty big gamble and no room for "Murphy" IMO!


While a truck's mirrors are MUCH larger than a cars..........The mirror size in comparison to the over all size of the vehicle and the lack of any other type of rearward visibility is VERY small. With much larger blind spots that the mirrors themselves cannot cover.

Imagine having to drive your car or ride your bike utilizing ONLY your mirrors. Not being able to turn your head, or even use your peripheral vision. Add to that the vibration of a Semi makes the objects in the mirrors very fuzzy and blurry. (Much like most motorcycle mirrors.) :P Also the glare from sunlight, or at night someones high beams in our mirrors makes them totally useless. Rain, Sleet, Snow, and the resulting road spray also have the same effect.

Don't forget that unlike cars and bikes, trucks cannot accelerate as quickly/decelerate as quickly, and require much more clear space laterally to make a safe lane change. We get held up like any one else, but it is much harder to find a gap large enough to make our lane changes. Top it off with the fact that most vehicles TOTALLY IGNORE our turn signals which is the only way we have to warn others that we need or even HAVE to change lanes.

[Rant]

I wish I had a dime for every time I had turned on my turn signals, only to have a vehicle that had been traveling a steady speed and far enough back to allow a change, see the signal and proceed to gun/floor the accelerator and try to get past the truck before the truck could complete its SAFE lane change! Very Stupid, and Very Dangerous! >

I don't understand the mentality behind anyone who would risk theirs and their passenger's lives by playing chicken with, or trying to bluff a Truck or Train! >

(Operating ANY vehicle on a public thoroughfare is a PRIVILIDGE granted by the State. It is NOT nor has it ever been our God given RIGHT.)

[/Rant]

Objects as small as the frontal profile of a bike can easily become lost or overlooked amongst the various other moving objects within the mirrors viewing area. If you are riding on the outer edges of your lane, you are at the outer most edges of the viewing area. (More likely to be missed or overlooked. :'( )

If you rapidly approach a truck from the rear in the same lane, and then suddenly change lanes and pass the truck. You have essentially just blind sided us. You won't have even given us the chance to see you. You have no idea if we might have to change lanes right at that point out of necessity or even possibly an EMERGENCY situation, as you won't be able to see past or around the truck itself.

By staying in the center of your lane and briefly PACING the truck from two car lengths back you give the driver the best chance of being able to see you. By flashing you high beams briefly you call further attention to yourself as well as giving notice of your intentions. [thumbsup]

As a driver myself I can tell you that we are constantly scanning our mirrors as well as traffic, road conditions, and wildlife from 1 mile ahead to directly in-front of the truck. Driving well ahead of yourself as well as predicting the movement of traffic even before the individuals start to react, is a very LARGE part of operating a vehicle of this size safely and efficiently.

I have been driving over the road for just over 20 yrs (Training other drivers for the last 10yrs) in all weather and traffic conditions, over all of the continental United States, and lower Canada. In that time I have proudly racked up over 2.5 MILLION miles of safe driving! No accidents (preventable or non-preventable) PERIOD! So it would be fair to say I have a very strong grasp of what it takes to drive and/or ride safely on any of the roads that this Country has to offer.

I REGULARLY see the ignorance of the average motorists on the road today, and allot of times witness the whole event, as well as the resulting carnage.

The road is an uncontrolled environment to put it lightly. Anything we can do as Drivers and/or Motorcyclists that can increase the safety to ourselves, as well as the others we are forced to share the roads with, that can make it just a little bit safer out there will pay its dividends in the preservation of human lives.

Allot of States have the "Share the Road" signs out in reference to motorcycles. IMO Share the Road Means just that, and pertains to all vehicles motorized or not regardless of the amount of wheels it may have.

[surly]

I catch your drift. It dont matter who was right if your dead

I just got a sore spot from some truckers. Cars too of course!
It can be pretty unsafe out there

[RedRider]

being new to street/road riding, i thouroughly appreciate your post! very informative and the information you presented is not in some of the books i have read. not sure if they will go over it in the MSF course or not, but i will make sure to share the information with anyone interested. thanks again! ;D

[greasacati]

my best advice (since i also happen to operate big rigs) is to stay at least one lane away, if possible of course, flash your beams in their mirror so they realize your there, and dont cut in between two of them unless you wanna play pinball at 80 mph.

[ChrisR1982Edin]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a long distance lorry driver. He says generally most lorry drivers would prefer to share the roads with bikers than car drivers. He says bikers tend to be more observant and considerate on the road, that and they dont get in the way [laugh]

When I ride I allways hang back behind a truck and offset to the drivers side so that I can see the driver in his morrior, theory is that if you cant see him then he cant see you, and thats dangerous! I allways give lorrys plenty room when over taking and dont cut infront of them once im past them, I allways leave around 2 to 3 car lengths, depending on speed of course.

Iv seen several people overtake lorrys on the opposite side to the driver... thats not smart. The lorry driver cant really see you all that well in that mirror.

If you are approaching some traffic lights that are red and there is a lorry stopped at the lights in the center lane (of 2, one by the center line) what side do you overtake on in order to filter through? I was told by my lorry driver friend that I should overtake on the side where the drivers door is. That makes it easier for him to see you. If you are parrallel to the driver BUT on the opposite side to the driver he might not be able to see you in his mirror. So when filtering through traffic I allways do it on the side of where the driver is.

[SparePart]

Great post SC - I just wanted to make a few comments about commercial truck tires because I work FOR a retread manufacturer (it's all we do) and I work WITH many trucking/transportation companies. Commercial tire explosions are absolutely deadly - not just to other motorists, but to technicians who work on truck tires as well. However, maintenance plays a FAR greater role in whether a tire blows than whether it's original or retreaded.

Some of the largest, best maintained fleets in the world successfully run their maintenance program and retreads - even on the steer tires (UPS uses them on all of the their package vans). Most commercial jetliners run retreads on their landing gear. School buses run retreads for drive tires. However, I could give you a list of companies that I would be nervous to pass even with brand new radials on their trucks because I know from firsthand inspection that their maintenance practices are not the same as most.

Retreading is not only safe when used in a responsible maintenance program, but it's smart for consumers and the environment. Holding a CDL, I'm sure you've seen the old "if it's in the store it came by truck" type campaigns? Well, when you have 18, or more, wheel positions a reduction of $150 per wheel position also saves on transportation costs, which saves the shipper, which in turn allows good old capitalism to allow them to be more competitive (read: cheaper products).

Also, one new commercial truck tire (11R22.5 for example) takes 26 gallons of oil to manufacture. Retreading a quality worn original takes 7 gallons - a savings of 152 gallons of oil per set of drive tires. Retread manufactures also recycle all of the old tread removed during the retread process and it is used for things like playground fill, floor mats and asphalt filler.

Anyway, we get a bad rap in the retreading industry because a lot of companies either don't maintain their tires properly (inflation mostly) or try to retread casings that should not be retreaded. Personally, one way I see to reduce the amount of debris on the road is to mandate quality standards for trade trucks (trucks that are traded in by large fleets for new trucks). These vehicles usually have tires on them that are sub-standard to save money and are re-sold with these same tires.

Well, sorry for getting on a soapbox, but I'd be glad to answer any questions. I know it's frustrating - trust me I hear the stories and I've seen the explosions.

Spare

[SHADOWCHASER]

Originally Posted by ChrisR1982Edin

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a long distance lorry driver. He says generally most lorry drivers would prefer to share the roads with bikers than car drivers. He says bikers tend to be more observant and considerate on the road, that and they don't get in the way [laugh]

When I ride I always hang back behind a truck and offset to the drivers side so that I can see the driver in his mirror, theory is that if you cant see him then he cant see you, and that's dangerous! I always give lorrys plenty room when over taking and don't cut in front of them once I'm past them, I always leave around 2 to 3 car lengths, depending on speed of course.

Iv seen several people overtake lorrys on the opposite side to the driver... that's not smart. The lorry driver cant really see you all that well in that mirror.

If you are approaching some traffic lights that are red and there is a lorry stopped at the lights in the center lane (of 2, one by the center line) what side do you overtake on in order to filter through? I was told by my lorry driver friend that I should overtake on the side where the drivers door is. That makes it easier for him to see you. If you are parallel to the driver BUT on the opposite side to the driver he might not be able to see you in his mirror. So when filtering through traffic I always do it on the side of where the driver is.

Ciao Chris, and thank you for your valid input to the thread. [thumbsup]

Yes I too would rather share the road with most motorcyclist also. As a whole most bikers pay more attention to operating their vehicles as well as their surroundings. Although as with autos and some truck drivers, there are exceptions to the rule. Every group unfortunately has their share of "Meatballs, Squids, and Jerks" that give no thought what so ever about anyone's safety let alone their own. :P

The blind spot directly opposite the drivers door all the way to the front of the tractor, as well as back to apx. the rear tandem on the tractor is as your friend so accurately warned, is one of the most dangerous spots.

Mirrors cannot adequately cover this area, and the line of sight from the drivers seat is obstructed by the door, hood and fender of the truck itself.

Hanging out in this area or even passing through it slowly can put you in danger of being missed by the driver, and subsequently run over, or off the road.

While in the states we drive on the right side of the road, and drive from the left side of the vehicle. So the blind spot you are speaking of is directly along the right side of the tractor. In the UK and other countries where the road position, and drivers position are reversed then it would be on the left side of the tractor.

Your friend gave you good sound advise by telling you to pass on the drivers side of the truck/lorry. Just keep the differences in mind as you travel to different countries where the road position and drivers positions are the opposite. [thumbsup]

As far as over taking a Truck/Lorry in the center lane at a light, I agree with your friend. Try to pass on the drivers side. However keep in mind that the longer the Truck/Lorry the more "Off Track" for the trailers tires has to be allowed for by the driver when making corners.

Pay extreemely close attention to the signals on the Truck/Lorry, as some times the corners are so square and the available space to turn into forces the longer Trucks/Lorrys to set up very wide for their corners. Sometimes even a whole lane!

You don't want to get caught between the trailer and the corner it the truck is turning because the trailers tandems will run right over the top of you. In the US this happens on right turns. In the UK and countries where it is opposite, it occurs on left turns. Please keep this in mind in that scenario.

Thanks again for your imput. It is valid and very much appreciated. [clap]