2004 Ducati 749R Track Bike

[desmoworks]

I didn't even bother reading your entire post as it is totally ridiculous from the start. You are the first person who has EVER said I have bad customer service that I know of. Take a look at the buyer seller ratings on the 1098 forum and you'll see how many threads there are saying we have the best customer service. Like I said about the other subject... you don't know what you are talking about. Just because I don't want you as a customer doesn't mean the service is bad to my actual customers.

You are obviously mad because I wouldn't haggle on parts with you - get over it. You bought your cartridge kit and damper from DOS because they were blowing everything out and you are cheap - congrats. Now they don't even sell the products. This is the same guy that was S8SBK that went out of business and screwed a bunch of customers out of parts, bikes, money, etc... a wise choice obviously.

[desmoworks]

I told myself not to waste anymore time on this, but it is too easy so I couldn't help myself.

You say you wanted 2-3% discount.... ha. I was offering you 10-13% which I thought was fair to both of us for that size order, but you wanted much more.

Here is a snipet from you in our email on July 25, 2007.

I appreciate all the effort. This may still work but I am always honest with people so I think it's fair that I tell you there is another online dealer willing to do 20% off on all the Brembo stuff so we're still a little apart on this.

Here is another direct quote from you after I explained I won't whore out parts like you want me to, from our email July 26, 2007.

That's ok, I understand the point you are making. I even agree with it. I also agree with the fact that you have better customer service then most everyone else. I think you proved that last night when I received an email from you at 11pm.

There are about 15 other quotes that I could post here from the emails that continue to contradict your current claims. Like I said earlier, you obviously are pissed that I would do what you wanted so now you feel a need to try and hurt my business.

[Monstermash]

Originally Posted by desmoworks

I told myself not to waste anymore time on this, but it is too easy so I couldn't help myself.

You say you wanted 2-3% discount.... ha. I was offering you 10-13% which I thought was fair to both of us for that size order, but you wanted much more.

Here is a snipet from you in our email on July 25, 2007.



Here is another direct quote from you after I explained I won't whore out parts like you want me to, from our email July 26, 2007.




There are about 15 other quotes that I could post here from the emails that continue to contradict your current claims. Like I said earlier, you obviously are pissed that I would do what you wanted so now you feel a need to try and hurt my business.

Blah, Blah, Blah. Make all the excuses you want. Your still didn't treat me with any kind of respect then or now.

Oh and I didn't get my Matris stuff on clearance. At the time he was still selling the stuff but he did give me a good deal. I noticed you left out the actual part where I asked for a slight discount over what you "offered." That was one of the first emails I sent after getting your response. Why don't you post all the negative stuff you wrote?

If your so great you would have to worry about me "hurting your business." And yeah I am a little miffed but it isn't from the lack of the discount. It was the lack of service and the attitude I recieved from you. I had planned to buy everything from you at your current discount you were offering until you started whining about everything and couldn't be bothered to send me the info on the forks you said you were going to send. How many additional emails did I send asking for it? IIRC it was around 4 and you couldn't be bothered.

So quite being a whiney little bitch because I took a little shot at you over your overpriced bike and go back and stare at your perfect feedback rating on the 1098 forum.

[desmoworks]

Originally Posted by Monstermash

So quite being a whiney little bitch because I took a little shot at you over your overpriced bike and go back and stare at your perfect feedback rating on the 1098 forum.

Yeah I'm the whiney little bitch getting in your threads and crying about the past?

I quit responding to you after about 12 emails as you were wasting my time just like you are now. You were complaining that they weren't bolt on and telling me you could get Ohlins that were - and I said have at it... You didn't want to get the $24 caliper spacers

And okay you want facts. Quit telling everyone you had a $6000 order. Retail was $4179.74, I'll quote myself in an email on July 25, 2007.

Total of around $4179.74 depending on what all is needed. 10% off would be $3761.76 -- for this amount of items I would take 13% off which is a total of around $3636.37.

After this you responded trying to get an even better price - so don't say you wanted 2-3% as I already gave you that over the standard DML discount. Telling me you can get things at cost from your dealer and 20% on Brembo.

Also, the DP Ohlins kit retails for a little over $4K and I get anything from Ducati at almost dealer cost through a local dealer I'm friends with. They take care of me after I spent almost $10K with them building my last Monster.

If I can get away with not have to get spacers for the rotors and I just need the ones for the calipers I may still do this. $24 for two spacers is not the end of the world but I don't want to have to play around with everything to get it to fit.

I appreciate all the effort. This may still work but I am always honest with people so I think it's fair that I tell you there is another online dealer willing to do 20% off on all the Brembo stuff so we're still a little apart on this. And thats if I only order the masters and calipers from them. I can do the DP Ohlins kit for around the same money and it's plug and play and includes all the hardware, lower triple, and cf front fender. Granted it doesn't include the masters but I can always find them somewhere.

This is when I knew I was wasting my time and was no longer interested in dealing with you. Here is my response back basically saying I don't want to deal with you... obviously you didn't get the hint. This is the email you're bent out of shape over I'm sure.

Well, I don't whore out parts nor do I play the price game with other dealers. I offered a fair deal, if you can do better somewhere else then I suggest you buy from them if that is what is important to you. Brembo has already black listed many dealers for selling things at 20% or more off, I'm not joining that group.

Anyhow, it sounds like you'll be happy with a GSX-R front end on your Monster so that would probably be the best route for you to take, or the Ohlins kit.

Then another classic response from you trying to get more than the 13% off I offered.

I'm sorry if I offended you because I shopped around. I don't expect you to "whore out parts" but I feel with an order of this size there should be a bigger discount. Especially considering there are dozens of other places I can buy it cheaper.

I won't even post the rest of that email as you go on for 6 paragraphs telling me how great of a business man you are and how you have experience in these situations, etc...

Here is the classic closer from you and customers like you.

So please let me know what you want to do. Again, I don't want to sound like a jerk but let me know if you want my business. It's not as if I'm buying a set of brake pads and want them for 10% over cost.

Here is my second attempt at telling you I don't want you as a customer - which you ignored as well at your own expense.

I do business a certain way, and it doesn't look like you want to play ball. I offered a little above my normal discount and that isn't good enough so that is fine. I suggest you buy from the dealers with great prices... I'm sure you will be happier this way.

No hard feelings at all, we just don't see eye to eye.

So everyone can now see exactly what happened from the important parts of the emails exchanged back and forth. Obviously you don't still have the emails and your memory must be a little cloudy as you aren't remembering any of it correctly. I'd be happy to send a copy of the entire email conversation over to you so you can get up to speed.

If your so great you would have to worry about me "hurting your business." And yeah I am a little miffed but it isn't from the lack of the discount. It was the lack of service and the attitude I recieved from you. I had planned to buy everything from you at your current discount you were offering until you started whining about everything and couldn't be bothered to send me the info on the forks you said you were going to send. How many additional emails did I send asking for it? IIRC it was around 4 and you couldn't be bothered.

Maybe I'm great maybe I'm not... that doesn't matter. The fact is I'm not worried about you hurting my business because I know it is an honest business. If someone wants to get on the forum and try to blast me that's fine - I'll post the facts and potential customers can decide. Anyone reading this thread will see what you tried to do and see how and why I handled it. If they like it, they will be my customer. If they don't like it is because they are like you and won't be my customer which is doing me a favor.

If my business fails because I won't bend over backwards for someone who feels they are entitled to a bigger discount because they are making a $4000 purchase then so be it. In my opinion the customer spending $100 on brake pads is just as important - obviously not to you.

And you're right, customers that spend large sums of money (if you discount deeply for them) do return to spend more, but who cares? You don't make any money from them and this is a business. It isn't a charity to help people buy more parts than they can afford.

I know of several places who did huge discounts and sold to customers slightly over cost - they made a lot of "friends" but now they are out of business. I use quotes around friends as they aren't really. They are just around to get items for cheap. If they really were you friends they'd realize that you have to make a profit to stay afloat. There are lots of costs associated with running a business (even an internet business) and it is hard to pay them when you aren't making much profit.

So feel free to post a rebuttal that is not based on fact and only based on emotion from skewed memories you have of our conversations. And feel free to blast me all over the internet... I'll just post this at each place and let it work itself out. No problems at all.

[mfutao]

A little love fixes everything.. perhaps its time for spooning.

Also - Thats a super hot track bike at a great price imho

[peaveybassist]

Yayyyyyy 2 christmases!!!!

[proclivity]

I have an '06 749 Dark, salvage title pretty good shape. Termi exhaust, 7k.

fix the fairings and go.

[Monstermash]

Ok Anthony,

You can quote me all you like. Those emails were just me trying to keep the peace after you started being a jerk just because I asked for an additional discount. Why is wrong to ask for anything? The worst answer you can get is no. I'd like to see you post the emails were you were being a complete jerk to me because I asked for a slightly higher discount because of the size of the order. And yeah the order was $4K but you are forgetting I also wanted the Marzocchi front forks that are lover $2K. Maybe it's me but a $4K order is pretty substantial, no? Or maybe you get an order that size every day. And you used the term "whoring out parts" several times in our conversation. I'm curious, what constitutes "whoring out" exactly? Is it only making 10%? Even if it was only 10% I would rather make $400 for a few minutes work and have a happy customer that might come back and spend more money with me in the future rather than pissing him off and not making anything at all.
Don't get me wrong, I understand profit is not a dirty word. It's what keeps businesses in business and the lights turned on and all that. However, without customers there is no profit.
I could understand holding out for more profit on certain items that are in demand and hard to get. But regular off the shelf items are just instruments in the business model and are replaced with another one once it's sold so what difference does it make if you make 10 points or 20 points? Zero % of zero is still zero. Wouldn't you rather make some money, than no money?

It wasn't all about the discount as you seem to think. I was more concerned over the fitment of the forks. You were supposed to email me the list of the spacers etc. I would need and pics of the completed install on the bike you were working on. I sent several emails reminding you but I didn't get a response so I went elsewhere. You blow your own horn like you have some great advantage over all the other online vendors when you sell alot of the same products as everyone else. In reality I was just trying to spend my money with someone who supported the DML and in the end I did but I just spread it all out with a few different vendors. I was trying to avoid that so it would be simple.
It's funny, you mention what a headache customers "like me" are but since I've built the bike I haven't called one of the vendors I did business with to complain or ask for something to be fixed. In fact I've done nothing but praise the people who did what they could to help make it as easy as possible. There were a few things I didn't get to last year when I first put the bike together and now I have the time to get back into it. I just ordered a few other parts I needed and guess what? I needed an upgraded rear shock. Had you not been such a jerk to me last year this is another sale you could have had. Me thinks that maybe customers like me ain't so bad after all huh?
It's also funny that you are slamming Jason at the Department of Suspension stating he was doing business under another name and screwed a bunch of people. Until you mentioned it, I had never heard a single negative thing about DOS. I'm sure slamming other vendors are a great way to endear yourself to all the prospective customers who are reading this.

Now if we can get back on subject.....

How'd that auction for the 749R go? Oh yeah, no one bid on it at $9500. So it appears I may have an idea of what things are worth after all. And I may be wrong and you'll find someone who will overpay for the thing. I just find it difficult to believe someone would pay almost retail (your initial $12,500 asking price) for an incomplete bike with a salvage title which was my point to begin with.

Also, don't you think you may piss a few people off by listing it here where you are a sponsor for $3K more than you would actually take for the thing? I know when I list something for sale here or on any other forum I belong to I always try to put my best foot forward on the price for the other members of the forum. But I guess thats not your M.O. as I mentioned before.

Good luck with the sale.

[Monstermash]

Originally Posted by desmoworks

You are obviously mad because I wouldn't haggle on parts with you - get over it. You bought your cartridge kit and damper from DOS because they were blowing everything out and you are cheap - congrats. Now they don't even sell the products. This is the same guy that was S8SBK that went out of business and screwed a bunch of customers out of parts, bikes, money, etc... a wise choice obviously.

Oh and I forgot a response to this little tidbit. Yes I did purchased my cartridge kit from DOS and at the time he wasn't "blowing everything out" He was still very much a Matris dealer and everything I ordered he didn't have in stock and had to be ordered from Italy. And you're calling me cheap because I got a good deal? I'm sorry if I don't understand the logic behind this. IMO if someone shops around and finds the best deal and they get what they paid for and get great customer service I call that an intelligent purchase. Maybe you look around for the distributor who has the highest prices and buy from them. Maybe thats why you can't "whore out" parts?
Jason went above and beyond with my sale. He installed the cartridge kit for next to nothing, went out of his way to get the forks, cyclecat triple and clipons to the anodizer, and if that wasn't enough, he answers the phone and is willing to spend the time with me when I have questions even though it might not mean a sale for him.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I'm ten times the businessman you are. You have no common sense, no business sense, and no real interest in cultivating relationships with potential customers unless it's on your terms. What intelligent businessman would ever tell a customer he didn't want to business with him because he asked for special treatment? I have a secret for you........... it doesn't work that way.

[desmoworks]

blah blah blah more personal attacks. Just get over it and move on with your life. I can't imagine living in a world where I'm so concerned with a transaction that could have been. What a waste of time!

I just love that you were watching the auction preying no one would bid so you could post here again and not look so foolish. You're probably right. Since the bike didn't sell in 7 days it must not be worth anything. Very sound logic!

And just to clarify I did post eveything I said to you in our emails that could remotely be construed as negative. I challenge you to prove me wrong as I know you can't. I save every email I send and receive.

You never received updates on the project or a list of pieces needed as I already told you twice prior that I was not going to be able to do business with you.

As well it has nothing to do with margins - this is where you miss my point. I believe in a product and mfgs. integrity. If you sell products at 20% off it de-values the product doing a disservice to both the manufacturer and vendor. I care about the products I sell so I take this into consideration. In my dealing with you I never calculated what my profit would be or made a decision based upon that.

Wouldn't you rather make some money, than no money?

I can honestly say, as I demonstrated, I 'd rather make no money than make some in a way I don't agree with. Making money is not all I'm concerned with in life.

I'm not slamming DOS for anything. I said truth - if you don't like it that's your right. If you want to twist it into something it isn't like you have everything else that is also your right.

Anything else you want to complain about?

Originally Posted by Monstermash

Ok Anthony,

You can quote me all you like. Those emails were just me trying to keep the peace after you started being a jerk just because I asked for an additional discount. Why is wrong to ask for anything? The worst answer you can get is no. I'd like to see you post the emails were you were being a complete jerk to me because I asked for a slightly higher discount because of the size of the order. And yeah the order was $4K but you are forgetting I also wanted the Marzocchi front forks that are lover $2K. Maybe it's me but a $4K order is pretty substantial, no? Or maybe you get an order that size every day. And you used the term "whoring out parts" several times in our conversation. I'm curious, what constitutes "whoring out" exactly? Is it only making 10%? Even if it was only 10% I would rather make $400 for a few minutes work and have a happy customer that might come back and spend more money with me in the future rather than pissing him off and not making anything at all.
Don't get me wrong, I understand profit is not a dirty word. It's what keeps businesses in business and the lights turned on and all that. However, without customers there is no profit.
I could understand holding out for more profit on certain items that are in demand and hard to get. But regular off the shelf items are just instruments in the business model and are replaced with another one once it's sold so what difference does it make if you make 10 points or 20 points? Zero % of zero is still zero. Wouldn't you rather make some money, than no money?

It wasn't all about the discount as you seem to think. I was more concerned over the fitment of the forks. You were supposed to email me the list of the spacers etc. I would need and pics of the completed install on the bike you were working on. I sent several emails reminding you but I didn't get a response so I went elsewhere. You blow your own horn like you have some great advantage over all the other online vendors when you sell alot of the same products as everyone else. In reality I was just trying to spend my money with someone who supported the DML and in the end I did but I just spread it all out with a few different vendors. I was trying to avoid that so it would be simple.
It's funny, you mention what a headache customers "like me" are but since I've built the bike I haven't called one of the vendors I did business with to complain or ask for something to be fixed. In fact I've done nothing but praise the people who did what they could to help make it as easy as possible. There were a few things I didn't get to last year when I first put the bike together and now I have the time to get back into it. I just ordered a few other parts I needed and guess what? I needed an upgraded rear shock. Had you not been such a jerk to me last year this is another sale you could have had. Me thinks that maybe customers like me ain't so bad after all huh?
It's also funny that you are slamming Jason at the Department of Suspension stating he was doing business under another name and screwed a bunch of people. Until you mentioned it, I had never heard a single negative thing about DOS. I'm sure slamming other vendors are a great way to endear yourself to all the prospective customers who are reading this.

Now if we can get back on subject.....

How'd that auction for the 749R go? Oh yeah, no one bid on it at $9500. So it appears I may have an idea of what things are worth after all. And I may be wrong and you'll find someone who will overpay for the thing. I just find it difficult to believe someone would pay almost retail (your initial $12,500 asking price) for an incomplete bike with a salvage title which was my point to begin with.

Also, don't you think you may piss a few people off by listing it here where you are a sponsor for $3K more than you would actually take for the thing? I know when I list something for sale here or on any other forum I belong to I always try to put my best foot forward on the price for the other members of the forum. But I guess thats not your M.O. as I mentioned before.

Good luck with the sale.