Battery acid on my engine - (bad, DNA, bad)

[jrfuisz]

If you all are going to invoke your lemon law rights, read the statute carefully. They are on the web. In VA, I needed to give written notice of my decision to apply the lemon law on the first visit. So if 3s a charm, you need to do on visit one. Otherwise you get to 4, invoke it and the dealer/mfg gets 3 chances. Plus, keep it all in writing and describe the problem in the most general terms. If it fails on visit 2 for a different reasons, no luck.

I've had 2 cars bought back. One by Chevy and one by MB. From chevy I got a choice between my original purchase price less a $ per mile charge, or a new truck with an equivalent value to the cash tye owed me. From MB, they gave me all but $2k back, but threw in another $4k if I bought another benz - essentially sold me a new car at cost. Both MFGs made the offers BEFORE the final lemon law would kick in. Once the car is lemonized the title is tainted. The MFGs take the almost lemons and have sepciality teams rip the cars apart to determine the problem, rebuild and sell. Chevy has a special band of mechanics that travel the country doing the destruction/rebuilding.

I always invoke my rights in writing on the service ticket if I have anything wrong with my cars that is not normal. I got screwed by Porsche in the early 90s - never again. Porsche had $ troubles then and would only do the minimal necessary to keep the car running - it came with a split valve guide and ate oil. PNA paid for a partial engine job. Dealer indicated it needed more work but PNA would not pay so I needed to pay $$$$ if I wanted it fixed.

Good luck...after enough problems arise, which I assume will with the weather getting warmer, DNA will have to address the issue. To few problems to have a corporate policy right now. They are probably still within their customer complaint threshold (which all mfgs have).

[infoage1]

It looks like it's the battery.

I'm in contact with Al Kolher, "Product Specialist", at Yuasa. He is familiar with this battery and its design as a GS brand (GS is a partner of FIAMM). This is an older design that Yamaha also had problems with in their R6, mounted in a manner similar to the S4. The vent holes for this battery, when mounted in the Ducati S4 configuration, are near the bottom of the battery. GS has since changed the design, and moved the vents higher (not sure when, I'll ask if he knows).

These are GS batteries out of a Yamaha R6. The lower one looks identical to the S4 battery (FIAMM-GS)



He does not think heat caused or even contributed to our problem. If anything, it might affect the longevity, but that's if operating temps were near the 180 degree range. One thing that might contribute to such a problem (as noted by others also), would be overcharging, defined as over 15 volts, which would cause excessive gassing.

After a long phone call, numerous emails and exchanging photos back and forth, Al is still comfortable with his battery in an S4 installation (Yuasa YT12B-BS).

A light weight alternative to consider (and that Cycle Cat recommends for some SBK installations) would be the Yuasa YTZ7S, which is 3 pounds lighter. Of course, this is not the battery recommended by Yuasa, so do so at your own risk.

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/

Tom



"Heat should not be a factor in regards to leakage.
Normally a battery can handle up to 140 degrees F.
If is ever hits 180 degrees, then we worry about internal plate damage.

Excessive overcharging (voltage) is what would tend to accelerate acid discharge.

I am not sure what the voltage regulator of your bike is designed to run at, but I would call anything over 15 volts excessive for normal use.

14.4 to 14.5 volts is probably about where it should be. No lower than 14.2 volts though, otherwise it will not charge up enough.

We do charge sulfated batteries at 16 to 18 volts without noticing any acid leakage, but that has always been on a bench, not in a bike."

Alan R. Kohler

[Speeddog]

Just checked, the battery in my bike is the "old style".

F@<K !
--------------edit------------------------
When you go to put your battery back in, put the bolts in the terminals first. Don't want one of those little nut plates to fall out.......DAMHIK

[infoage1]

Just checked, the battery in my bike is the "old style".

F@<K !

I think you missread my post.

I think ALL Ducati batteries are the "old" style (03 Monsters, let us know).

Although it is possible Ducati is using the new style battery now, that picture is Yamaha R6 related that Al send me to check against a FIAMM in my buddy's S4...it looks exactly the same.

now THAT is some useful info dude... very interesting about the different revisions. those vent holes are teenie enough that i'd never of even thought of it! gotta check mine and i guess i can reconsider the battery relocation (which is nice cuz i'm getting lazy with all these projects). gotta talk to my duc mech and see if he's caught wind of this at all...

[Speeddog]

Didn't catch that ...............
Thanks for the clarification.

[mdozier]

It looks like it's the battery.

I'm in contact with the Al Kolher, "Product Specialist" at Yuasa. He is familiar with this battery and its design as a GS brand (they are partners with FIAMM). This seems an older design that Yamaha also had problems with in their R6 in a similar installation. The vent holes for this battery, in our configuration, are near the bottom of the battery. GS has since changed the design, and moved the vents higher (not sure when, I'll ask if he knows).

Tom, are you saying that he (Al) admitted they had similar problems w/ his battery in the R6's?

is he saying this slight design change in the "vent" locations is a fix? are you comfortable w/ what he explained to the extent that the new design won't have a problem? or is he hinting it was a bad batch or something?

you seem to be saying the battery is the problem and he (Al) is saying he's ok w/ the battery in our S4's - is that the new one or the old one as well?

sorry if i'm an idiot, but the engeekineer in me wants more detail. i'm not yet sure that i want to replace w/ a newer version of the same batt 'till we get some assurance of why.

thanks again for all your help and info - good work :)

-matt

[infoage1]

Tom, are you saying that he (Al) admitted they had similar problems w/ his battery in the R6's?

No, no, no...

Al is the good guy

The photos and discussion were about his competitors---who made our batteries (FIAMM-GS).

He is ok with his battery, the Yuasa, on its side, in our motorcycles...fwiw

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, the little blurb about needing to modify the hold down was taken off the instructions for a different model, and does not apply to the S4...


Ducati - Monster S4 2001-2002 916cc
Battery Family: Maintenance Free
Battery Type: YT12B-BS
(hold down must be modified to accept battery)

Voltage: 12
Capacity: 10
Dimensions: 6" x 2 3/4" x 5 1/8"
Weight: 7.6 lbs.
Metric Dimensions: 150mm x 69.0mm x 130.0mm
Metric Weight: 130 kg
Polarity:
Acid Volume: 0.50
Amps: 1.0
C.C.A.: 125

[mdozier]

gotya - i told you i was an idiot, can't read worth a "danm" - or spell for that matter.

have you already replaced yours?

btw how many miles did you have on your foggy before your batt failure?

tx - m

[infoage1]

[quote]gotya - i told you i was an idiot, can't read worth a "danm" - or spell for that matter.