Battery acid on my engine - (bad, DNA, bad)

[infoage1]

...if it boils over, then woo hoo!!! use the warrantied labor time to degree your cams since they're pulling the bike apart anyways

Strati,

I'm not sure you read my first post in its entirety...

My take is that because Ducati is getting so many of these damaged S4 Monsters, it not longer wants to complete the needed repairs in an acceptable fashion (much less admit they have a model-wide problem).

It sounds to me like they want to rattle-can the damaged bikes.

A can of Krylon won't go too far toward a 4V cam dial...

http://www.krylon.com/product/op_consumer_product.asp


If Ducati NA were to allow the dealer to repair my motorcycle as the dealer first proposed, I would say, "Well, this was sure a bummer, but Ducati did the right thing and my bike is as good as new. This is a company that stands behind its products; What a bike, what a company."

But, Ducati North America will not allow the dealer to do the repair properly.

Half-a_s_s is not an acceptable solution for a problem Ducati is 100% responsible for, and could have avoided with a wee bit of integrity.

the dealerships i've encountered are trying to say it's low qual batteries... um how come the same batteries aren't a problem in other bikes? it's like ford trying to blame firestone for their catastrophic rollover problems in the explorer... then turning around and adding three inches to wheel base width in the new model; why redesign the vehicle if there is a problem with the tire? uh huh, firestone got screwed by ford in that deal. and ducati is trying to point fingers rather than own up to a miss on their part.

the fact is the battery on the s4 sits with the largest surface area almost directly on top of the flat wide surface of the 4v valve head. the area is very tight with minimal clearance for cooling. there are no cooling fins on top of that stove. combine that with the fact there is no heat insulation and you're going to have a problem. the rear cylinder in my bike has melted the wiring harness, the fuse block, the fuel sending unit, and the battery.

i've replaced my standard acid battery in my '96 900 with a sealed unit similar to the one in my s4 over a year ago... hadn't had a problem yet. in fact, it was replaced prior to my last accident when i swapped out the frame. i had no acid damage from the laydown. the 2v head is considerably smaller about a quarter of the size with plenty of heat dispersing fins and the battery is located further away with a smaller surface area orientated towards the heat source.

hey tom,
i guess i didn't catch that part about the dealers not doing a full repair on acid damage. i just posted thinking of the specific case of a buddy who's battery popped on his s4's top cylinder. he pulled the motor himself (for an unrelated project) and brought it up to BCM in NH. the replaced the coil (which was melted), repaired whatever needed to be done on the cylinder head and sent it off for proper painting. he wound up waiting a couple weeks but it was all done properly in the end.
if the projects weren't underway and he brought up the whole bike, i'm sure they still would've done the same work as any dealer would if you indicated you understood the scope of the damage and what needed to be done to fix it.

thinking more about this, i'm considering maybe installing a small fan right on the battery tray to keep air moving through there... i've got some teenie computer cooling fans laying around in my office that may find some use afterall.

[infoage1]

hey tom,
i guess i didn't catch that part about the dealers not doing a full repair on acid damage. i just posted thinking of the specific case of a buddy who's battery popped on his s4's top cylinder. he pulled the motor himself (for an unrelated project) and brought it up to BCM in NH. the replaced the coil (which was melted), repaired whatever needed to be done on the cylinder head and sent it off for proper painting. he wound up waiting a couple weeks but it was all done properly in the end.
if the projects weren't underway and he brought up the whole bike, i'm sure they still would've done the same work as any dealer would if you indicated you understood the scope of the damage and what needed to be done to fix it.

Hi Strati,

Yeah, it would be a different story if I was planning to drop the engine anyway. I think I might powdercoat the heads and cylinders. But I have no plans to do so. The bike runs good, really good. I've got my valves and cams just where I want them. My fuel injection seems spot on. I really don't need to do anything to the bike right now....it rips.

As a matter of fact, I'm a bit (quite a bit) nervous about letting a "tech" touch anything on my bike. I'd just as soon "cash out" any claim and do the "work" myself.

How bad was your buddy's bike, and what did Ducati cover?

[Speeddog]

I've found a little preliminary battery info to share here.
Accuracy is not certain, so YMMV.

My OEM S4 battery is a GS brand, GT12B-4. It is described as a sealed, maintenance free, non spill, Absorbed Glass Mat battery. No free liquid acid per se, the acid is absorbed in fiberglass matting between the plates.

The construction is fundamentally the most modern conventional battery. Other manufacturers have similar batteries. There are several replacements I found, Yuasa YT 12B-BS and PowerSource WP12B-4.

I was involved a tiny bit with an advanced battery project several years ago. Batteries can get into a "thermal runaway" mode, a heat/chemical activity problem. I don't remember if that was related to electrical load also, IE could the battery do a "thermal runaway" just sitting there, or did it need to be delivering or receiving a lot of current also. I'll see if I can find any of the guys who were involved in that project.

We have talked about whether it's bad batteries due to design or construction, overheating due to location, or maybe the regulator goes wacko and overcharges.......
Lots of potential causes.

Mark, Tom, Matt and myself all live in south/west states, where it does get particularly hot. Strati's in the northeast, it can get plenty hot there too. Batteries don't like getting baked.

The concept of going pro-active is self preservation. Mark & Tom are getting the doubletalk runaround shaftjob from DNA, and those of us who have not had a problem yet should be concerned. If DNA was stepping up to the plate to deal with the problem in a timely manner, we could ride on in ignorant bliss and have DNA fix it when it goes bad. Mark and Tom are not feeling the love from DNA.

I'm going to call Jer Stewart right now. IMHO, all of us with S4's and '02 and later Monsters should call her and express our concern about a potential problem (if we're lucky and haven't had a problem yet....).

Tom, thanks for Jer's number.

hey tom,
from what i understand, the head was sent off to a painter to have the corosion sanded and then repainted with a very nicely matched color (i could _BARELY_ notice the difference), the coil-on-head was replaced (melted) and of course a new battery was installed. a different type was used but i'm not sure which....

so i finally got off the phone with dna... they are going to have to do some leg work but it seems they're going to address the issues with my bike. we'll see the results hopefully i can report that i'll be a happy camper. i'm aware ms. stewart is currently THE customer service rep and i am more than willing to give them a chance to respond to my issues. it was good to finally speak to a person after two weeks of attempting to contact a real breathing person. the facts of the matter though are that the bike has sat in the dealership for over two months at this point. balking by the dealer or the dealer's area rep to do warranty repair work is not a satisfactory solution and the waiting on back order parts excuse gets old after you hear it every time you take the bike in for service. i've been dealing with this for over a year now... starting going down the crapper with mr. nevola's less than satisfactory response to my issues, a couple of months of me moving and dna moving, a customer service rep that bailed even though she actually returned calls, now i'm trying out a third rep. i feel that i've been very patient with all involved but it boils down to that i want to see results.

a pre-emptive to all the responses that i should just take care of it myself... Bite Me!

[mdozier]

MarkV, best of luck w/ the cus/serv rep. i only tried 4 times by phone and 1 e-mail w/ nary a single reply - not a peep.

hope you finally get some satisfaction, i don't blame you for pressing the issue w/ them, what's the point of a warranty and customer service otherwise.

not that this is your major issue w/ your S4 but did you happen to get anything concrete from her about the battery troubles? (not intending to be too selfish here )

tx-matt

[mdozier]

well i'll be d@mned, Jer returned my calls right after i posted the last message . i told her my story about my foggy computer and she seemed not to have heard anything about it.

i did ask if she had heard anything about battery problems w/ the S4's - she said no and said that if i did have any problem to go immediately to my dealer so they could see it and take care of it.

[MonsterHooligan]

I don't think i manufacturer has EVER admitted to having heard about a problem! :P