Ducati Monster Motorcycle Forum banner

Hard front

11K views 47 replies 3 participants last post by  Frosty 2.0 
#1 ·
Riding this new bike is been a learning experience for me. I am satisfied with the bikes performance and power but really am at lost as to the way it behaves on road irregularities. Most of the time, if going over a very small bump, the bike seems to really jar the rider. Comparing it to a jap bike its too much of hardness on the front. I am confuse if the front is soft that I am bottoming out the front forks or hard. It is not confidence inspiring and I have yet to ride it aggressively on the twisties, but I am afraid that it would be unsettled on an aggressive lean. Any insights and tips? Thanks!
 
#2 ·
The valving of the front forks is what is causing the jarring on the sharp-edged bumps... it is not bottoming out. The problem is, if you modify the valve to handle sharp impacts, then it can't work well during regular road suspension duties. Problem #2 is the fork is non-adjustable otherwise, besides changing fork oil weight.

The bike handles quite well with the stock suspension, one of the tricks is getting the rear shock, which is adjustable, set up properly to work with the front with your rider weight.
 
#3 ·
How would you modify the front fork valves and regarding the fork oil weight, what would you suggest I put in?
I was also thinking if adjusting the rear shocks will have an effect to the front. I weigh almost 200 lbs. Which way do you think i should go? Adjusting the rear for softer or firmer?
 
#19 ·


Apologies for such a newb question. If I move the adjuster upwards it will compress the springs and thus making it shorter. Then what would be the effect? And if I move the adjusters downwards, making the spring decompress and longer, what would be the effect?
 
#20 ·
If you compress the spring, it will be setup for more weight... letting the spring out is the better setup for less weight. As I said, the idea of adjusting the spring preload is to balance the rider weight... too much preload and the shock may not work properly with a given weight (too harsh/hard,) too little preload and the suspension will likely overwork and/or bottom. The chassis either way will not feel settled.
 
#22 ·


Tried adjusting the rear preload, I felt a change in the way the suspension behaves. It seems better and manageable. Unlike it was before. Now I am in need of a c spanner tool for the setting of the preload. I saw a spanner that is for chain adjustment and really looks like the preload adjustment tool too. Question, can it be also be used as a preload adjuster tool?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-motorcycle-p...ch/1158879407?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true
 
#30 ·
Adjusted the monster suspension yesterday, I still find it's ride on the harsh side. First was I set the compression or rebound screw to stock specs at 8 clicks out from the fully closed position. Figures are

Bike's own weight without rider:
Front: 157.48mm Rear: 528.32mm

With Rider:
Front: 134.62mm Rear: 502.92mm

Difference of (sag)
Front: 22.86mm Rear: 25.4mm

Too much rear squatting when applying throttle especially coming out from a turn, so made 4 clicks more on the setting. Did better but overall it is still a harsh ride.
So I was thinking if I start all over again in setting it up. Question is, if I start again with the rebound and compression fully closed, and set sag and preload will effect would you think will happen? And if I start the other way around in which I will open the rebound and comp fully then set sag.
 
#31 ·
Maybe it's just me... but I think you are looking too far into this. It's a high-performance bike, it's suspension is designed to work at 100Km/h or 200Km/h; in order for it to work at those speeds it may be a little harsh at lesser speeds... and sharp-edged bumps have always been the bane of any suspension. A suspension that handles 'not so harsh' would be a pig at higher speeds and/or cornering. I was out flogging the 796 yesterday... I don't recall rear squat being a problem at all.

I think stock sag is 30mm... so your rear preload (spring) is still set a little too high, perhaps contributing to the harsh ride. Setting the rebound adjuster all the way in... by what do you mean? All the way 'hard' (clockwise) or out 'soft'?
 
#32 ·
Will be tinkering the susp again this weekend and will be starting to set the rebound adjuster all the way to soft counter clockwise then measure and set up the sag, then maybe will be closing the adjusters hard clockwise and unscrewing it from the closed settings 8 clicks as to what the manual says stock setting, test ride it and go from there adjusting the rebound.
 
#34 ·
that's true charlie98, it is very sad that ducati resorted to a non adjustable front end whereas cheaper bikes have ones. regarding the setting of sag, I have done that prior setting my preload/sag, i set the damp/comp to it's stock settings which is quite on the middle 8 clicks out from the fully turned in position. then I test rode the bike and went from there. now the bike has been set to just about 4 clicks out, still not satisfied with the setting, so am trying a different approach in setting sag again with the screws fully turned out and after getting sag, will probably have it again to set dam/comp on its stock 8 clicks out from full and go from there.
 
#35 ·
Adjusted the suspension this morning, set the screws full out counterclockwise and started to measure rear sag. Had 40mm of riders sag so I then adjusted to increase preload and behold! I have used all the threads on the rear shocks and still can't reach the 30mm sag. So, Im afraid that I would be needing stiffer springs both front and rear! having bought this bike and I will still be spending again for it's springs etc. Frustrated and very surprised with this monsters suspension. So I backed up 2 turns from the preload adjusters, then set the rebound adjusters back to its stock setting which is 8 clicks out from the fully closed position, made further adjustments while test riding and screwed in 3 clicks more from the 8s. Made a very small improvement and I will have to live with this suspension till I find the budget for suspension works.
 
#36 ·
Just for giggles, I went out and measured mine. What's funny, the unladen preload length is the same on the sidestand as it is jacked up. A rudimentary measurement gave me 35-38mm of sag w/rider weight, which is supposed to be too much. I tapped in about 1/2 turn on the preload nut, went 10 clicks up on rebound... and I'll see where that gets me.

I'm quite amazed you bottomed out the spring preload and you were still over 30mm on sag?!? I wonder if there is a Sachs or aftermarket spring that would help out, here, in lieu of replacing the entire shock. Personally, I think the Ohlins is the way to go... you get a new shock with a spring weight to match your weight and riding characteristics... even with the understanding that it's $700. I've been poking around to see if there is a long-term fix for the front forks... besides swapping them out for something else.
 
#37 ·
Really! So there would be no need to raise the wheel off the ground, hahaha! Been tiring ourselves trying to raise the bike off the ground.
Yeah I have used the maximum turn for the preload, maybe is it because I turned the reb/damping screws all the way out counterclock prior to adjusting my preload? Will it make a difference if I will do the opposite next time going to close clockwise all the way then adjust my preload? then set it back to 8 clicks out and go from there? I can't ride this thing the way I intend to! Worse comes to worse, I hope that there is just a stiffer aftermarket spring out there for the front and back when I go to the susp specialist, not willing to spend big bucks in ohlins replacement. Or else have to just live with it and just hope I could upgrade to an 1100 next riding season.
 
#38 ·
Well.. I meant the rear, not necessarily the front (which I didn't check because it doesn't matter, not being adjustable and all.)

I'm not sure I'm understanding what you did (or are intending to do.) There are two adjustments on the rear shock: Spring preload (the black adjusters under the physical spring, and rebound damping (the screw at the top of the shock.) They are independent of each other, but, all things being equal, your shock would require more damping if the spring preload was set higher to have the wheel return at the same rate. As a rule of thumb, you set preload based on suspension sag (which very rarely would change once set, except for major changes in rider weight (luggage, passenger) or riding habit (track day, etc) and then adjust the rebound damping to suit your riding.

I don't know if there are any aftermarket springs available for the front. Progressive Suspension (the general leader in aftermarket suspension parts) doesn't catalog them, and even esoteric things like the Andreani cartridge kit is not specifically available for the 796 (but it is for the 696, go figure.) Besides fork oil weight, about the only thing you can do with the fronts is have them revalved (Race Tech, for example.)
 
#39 · (Edited)
This are the numbers of my present susp settings.

Rebound and dumping was set to full counterclockwise turn before measuring anything and here are the numbers.

Fully extended, wheels off the ground front: 192mm
Bike's own weight front: 151mm
With rider front: 139mm

Front sag total: 53mm

Fully extended, wheels off the ground rear: 546mm
Bike's own weight rear: 535mm
With rider rear: 501mm

Rear sag total: 45mm

Didn't touch anything on the front obviously no adjusters.
I did increase preload to obtain at least closer to 30mm but only managed to get it to 36mm and I used all of the preload adjusters to it's maximum.
Clicked the reb/damp screws back to stock 8 turns from fully in. Rode the bike and added 3 clicks more clockwise.

Any insights on the way I did the settings? Have I done it wrong? Are the numbers way off? Open to suggestions, I will be continue to find ways in setting to a more suitable ride for me before giving up and bring this bike to a suspension specialist.
 
#42 ·
And I was also advised in another duc forum that I should have stayed with the rear sag at 45 because I am loading the front end too much if I will have a 36 rear sag. Also read somewhere that the front and rear should be balance to work together in unison, say having too much sag in front so I have to at least increase my rear sag to balance the bike. I am afraid that the bike's rear may squat too much in acceleration and be unstable. I will work it out this weekend and try to balance the rear to the front and adjust reb/damping and see how it goes.
 
#43 ·
There is some truth to that... as we have decided, it would be much easier if the front was even basically adjustable for preload. That really handicaps us. In a perfect world, we should be able to swap springs with the proper spring rate for our size (I'm at 210 riding weight) and be on our way.

When I had my CBR1000, the fronts were waaay too soft to compete with the rear... the front would dive and actually bounce (it was non-adjustable, too.) I threw in a set of Progressive Suspension springs and it changed the riding characteristics on the bike so much, it felt like a newer, smaller bike... because it handled so much better.

In your case, if you intend to keep your bike for a while, would be to see if you can upgrade at least the rear spring, and revalve the front forks. It's possible there are aftermarket springs somewhere and I just haven't fount them yet.
 
#46 ·
I use a ziptie on my front fork leg to see what the action looks like. There is a difference between high- and low-speed damping... I can almost bottom my fork just driving around town, but when I set the tie up and go sport riding, there is usually about 1/2" less travel, overall.

 
#48 ·
After tweaking the suspension last weekend, finally got it to ride better. Spent three weekends chasing that ideal numbers of preload and sag according to the books got me nowhere. What I did was increase the rear sag more thus balancing or bringing the rear sag's number closer to the front which has 53mm. Adjusted the reb/comp to 5 turns from the fully closed position and alas!, the bike rode as I want it to be. Suspension front and rear became soft but not also can feel stable when accelerating, turning, overtaking and changing lanes. Will have to see if it will still have room to get it better. As it turned out, too much preload on the rear must have loaded the front too much, that caused the front and rear not working together as one for the whole bike. Which in my case, the problem was unbalanced front and rear. Saved me $ in going to a suspension specialist. Overall, am glad to sort suspension woes. Thanks to all of you who gave tips and insights. Now, the monster has awakened to be a "MONSTER"!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top