2017 monster 1200s - Page 3 - Ducati Monster Forums: Ducati Monster Motorcycle Forum
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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 07:18 AM
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Gents, warning, this is going to be a long post :

Ducati, for the past few years has been shitting new M.Y's left and right...
Yes, there's always room for improvement of a product BUT, these are 18K+ toys we're talking about, basically, IMO, they're up to the point of alienating their already existing customers/user-base.
What, you spent 18.400€ for a Μ1200S 2 years back ? Fuck you, here's the new, re-styled model for early 2017.
Got a 23500€ Diavel Carbon back in late 2014/15 ? Fuck you, here's the new re-styled Diavel for 2016, Same thing with the Pani...
We're (almost) down to new smartphone/new Call of duty video game release schedule territory here boys for Christ's sake, what's next, YEARLY re-releases ?

Really, it's about the whole snake-oil kind of pitch, i mean, back in 2014 you had the M1200 and M1200S, same motor but the 1200 produced 5HP less - WHY ? (suddenly, the 2017 M1200 produces the same 150bhp as the S model)...
The S models always featured better equipment, yes, why the 5 HP difference though ? And while we're at it, why the de-tuned TS 11' motor from the get-go ? Why didn't they release the monsters with the full power (around the 160bhp mark) back in 2014 ? Maybe because they already had a new "more powerful" Monster in the works for it to be released after just a couple of years down the road (M1200R) ? I mean, you could see that shit coming from miles away, c'mon...

We're not talking about "hey, we resolved some issues with previous M.Y's" and "here, bike comes with new...rims and graphics", nope, we're talking about almost new bike/model - even Gargamel...eeerm...Claudio Domenicali presented it to be as such.
Shorter wheelbase, smaller dimensions, more e-gizmos, quickshifter, different headlight and more HP, i mean, wtf - and this just merely 1 year after the M1200R, you know, a 20000€+ bike - you already know what's coming next, the 2017/2018 re-styled and improved M1200R, they've become incredibly transparent as a company - more so than they used to, THIS is my whole enstasis with the company, you can see from a mile away nowadays their upcoming sales-pitch, f*ck that...
If i were a M1200R owner i'd be incredibly pissed right now gents.

You already know what's coming next, right ? a new re-styled M821, 1200R and - maybe - for the last year of production a 1200RS model - just a couple of months before they unveil their next-gen monster

Back to the 2017 M1200...technical upgrades aside...i don't know what they're smoking over at borgo Panigale, Audi's/German input
must be getting stronger - it's about the small, ugly details in my honest opinion...
You had the Diavel with that nice round headlight...only to have its looks destroyed by that Alien Queen, weird-looking headlight on the re-designed one, sure, it was full LED but it looked just wrong compared to the original one...
Enter the new monster : stubbier headlight, weird geometric-shaped sculpted parts (look at the undertail part and heatshield on the right header for example on the newer model), uglier re-designed instrument cover (kinda looks like the previou's gen's), reshaped seat-cowl and so on so forth - some of the beautiful curves are gone, enter angles.
Also, that weird "liquid-grey" color scheme, shit man, looks like some shit AMG would produce, doesn't look like a Duc, if you were to remove the logos from the tank would you recognize it as a monster ? Senna Grey (with red touches/details) would have worked, this one though ? i know it's a personal opinion but...nope.And let's not get started about the new MTS1200, doens't look remotely like an Italian bike - that's what companies like MV do better, the Turismo veloce 800 for example ? Pure Italian sex - the MTS1200 looks like an Angry bird that got hit with a hammer...in the face...and its sides.
Again, part of Ducati ownership is also about the details.

Finally, i think that re-designing the whole bike (because, let's face it, there are lots of improvements) was a mistake on their part :
So, you have your engineers and designers designing and producing an "exotica" product only for... back-peddling after only 2 years by releasing the new one ? It makes it look like their original vision of the bike was wrong, i'm referring to the longer wheelbase, bulkier dimensions and - generally speaking - more comfy ergos, like many reviewers mentioned back in 2014, the newer monsters were/are more 'touring-worthy" if you're into that kind of thing.
Now you may argue that monsters aren't meant to be "sport tourers" and/or "roadsters" ("Miavel" anyone ? ) and what have you and that they got their original vision (the 2014 model) wrong from the get-go by releasing a "roadster" and not a sport-naked bike like the monster always was but...it's what they released, that was their initial vision and they should have sticked with it, this revisionist history can only hurt their image IMO as you can't put much faith into them anymore since, no matter the fact that you've spent almost 20K on one of their products you're going to get screwed in the near future after buying it since you know that they'll release their "new" one one year and a half/2 years later.

If they wanted to release a "new" monster they should have waited til' the next-gen release, sure, they could have changed the footpegs and other minor things (it'd be the normal thing to do seeing the complaints) but this new one ? it's like they're actively trying to - again - alienate their already existing fan/userbase...

Sorry for the long-winded posts, add to me 5HP and more e-gizmos if wrong
Cheers
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Last edited by Rosso Classico; 11-17-2016 at 07:38 AM.
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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 08:01 AM
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I agree with Classico Rosso.
Being a recent 2017 1200R owner, I am very disappointed that the new 1200S is too close. Less the wheels and slightly less horsepower, it overall has better equipment. When they come out with the 2017 and a half M1200R with all new upgrades I for sure will be pissed. Should have waited....
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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 10:16 AM
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Totally! WTF, Ducati?? The electronics package on the XDiavel is *outstanding* and the bike is a complete joy to ride - if that's your thang. If Ducati had put that electronics package on the '17 M1200, I'd be in the queue tomorrow!
Other thing they should've swiped from the XDiavel for the Monster, the internal cooling passages to get rid of the hoses.
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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 10:40 AM
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All of that only matters if you care about the status of having the latest, if you're comparing yourself and your possessions to everyone else.

If it was a good bike that was worth the money when you bought it, it still is. If it wasn't, it still isn't. What they change, make, or don't make from then on doesn't have any effect on that. You got a nice bike, ride it. Don't worry about what someone else has.

PhilB
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by philb View Post
All of that only matters if you care about the status of having the latest, if you're comparing yourself and your possessions to everyone else.

If it was a good bike that was worth the money when you bought it, it still is. If it wasn't, it still isn't. What they change, make, or don't make from then on doesn't have any effect on that. You got a nice bike, ride it. Don't worry about what someone else has.

PhilB
My point was, why update the 1200S to have more features than the R, and leave the R unchanged? I love my bike, only wish it had the DQS.

I understand what you are saying though. If you always want the latest and greatest, you'll never be satisfied.
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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by philb View Post
All of that only matters if you care about the status of having the latest, if you're comparing yourself and your possessions to everyone else.

If it was a good bike that was worth the money when you bought it, it still is. If it wasn't, it still isn't. What they change, make, or don't make from then on doesn't have any effect on that. You got a nice bike, ride it. Don't worry about what someone else has.

PhilB

Dear ol' Phil, this has got nothing to do with having the "latest and greatest" and yes, if you live by that motto you're not gonna be buying anything in this life, agreed.

This whole discussion has got to do with screwing your loyal customers, you know, those that've spent a small fortune on your product.

You mean to tell me old friend that if you spent today 21000€/$ on a brand new bike you wouldn't be pissed (even a little bit) if the company presented the newer model in just a year's time ? C'mon man, it's simple...

Again, this is not about being jealous/envious of newer, shinier stuff but depreciation of something you spent LOTS of money on in just a few months/years time.

Cheers
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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Classico Rosso View Post
Dear ol' Phil, this has got nothing to do with having the "latest and greatest" and yes, if you live by that motto you're not gonna be buying anything in this life, agreed.

This whole discussion has got to do with screwing your loyal customers, you know, those that've spent a small fortune on your product.

You mean to tell me old friend that if you spent today 21000/$ on a brand new bike you wouldn't be pissed (even a little bit) if the company presented the newer model in just a year's time ? C'mon man, it's simple...

Again, this is not about being jealous/envious of newer, shinier stuff but depreciation of something you spent LOTS of money on in just a few months/years time.

Cheers
Improving your product screws your customers?

Yes, you are correct, I wouldn't be -- if I spent the money on a brand new bike, I'd do so because I thought the bike was worth the money to me. If they come out with a newer model, that would not piss me off even a little bit. It changes exactly nothing about my bike and riding it.

Depreciation happens. To me, it's silly in the first place to buy something with the intent of trying to hold its value for when you sell it -- if you don't want to keep it and use it, why buy it in the first place? There will always be new models.

It's all about living your own life, not about comparing to everyone else.

PhilB
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1993 Ducati M900 Monster "Patina" (261,000 miles, so far) -- 1995 Ducati M900 (wife's bike) -- 1979 Vespa P200 (daughter's scoot) -- 1964 Vespa GS160 (160cc 2-stroke) -- 1962 Maicoletta scooter (275cc 2-stroke) -- 1960 Heinkel Tourist 103A1 scooter "Elroy" (175cc 4-stroke)
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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 12:53 PM
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For the horsepower. Skip the R. In a dutch test it delivered only 144 hp at crackshaft.
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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 01:26 PM
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For the horsepower. Skip the R. In a dutch test it delivered only 144 hp at crackshaft.
You failed to include mention of the S delivered hp for comparison.
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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 11-17-2016, 01:41 PM
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You failed to include mention of the S delivered hp for comparison.
And who cares? Bench racing. "Only 144 hp", as if that's just plain inadequate to get on the highway with. Nobody is actually racing these competitively, so a few hp here and there doesn't matter. Anything over 50hp is luxury -- A Monster 620 is plenty fast enough to get you in or out of trouble on the street.

PhilB

1993 Ducati M900 Monster "Patina" (261,000 miles, so far) -- 1995 Ducati M900 (wife's bike) -- 1979 Vespa P200 (daughter's scoot) -- 1964 Vespa GS160 (160cc 2-stroke) -- 1962 Maicoletta scooter (275cc 2-stroke) -- 1960 Heinkel Tourist 103A1 scooter "Elroy" (175cc 4-stroke)
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